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robinhanson's profile
Robin Hanson
Robin Hanson
Robin Hanson
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@robinhanson

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Robin HansonVerified account

@robinhanson

Let's skip witty repartee & position taking, & discuss enduring fundamental questions. (& my books: http://ageofem.com , http://elephantinthebrain.com )

Fairfax, VA
hanson.gmu.edu
Joined July 2007

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    Robin Hanson‏Verified account @robinhanson Oct 12

    On reflection, I see these as key immigration Qs: (1) What do (people think) the people of a nation owe each other? (2) What (do people think) are legit ways to pick who in/out of a nation? These are now the Qs for which I'd like to see deep thoughtful analysis.

    3:15 PM - 12 Oct 2018
    • 19 Retweets
    • 85 Likes
    • casijn 🌲 bourbakis Nishtha Maxim Lott Carl 🇺🇸🇬🇧 Dio Mavroyiannis 🌊 Eric Johnson A E V Wiley Cason
    22 replies 19 retweets 85 likes
      1. Robin Hanson‏Verified account @robinhanson Oct 12

        It would help to answer these questions for families, firms, cities, clubs, & churches, & to say how nations differ from these.

        1 reply 0 retweets 14 likes
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      1. Jordan Cohen‏ @jordancohen74 Oct 12
        Replying to @robinhanson @Cernovich

        1-When friends came here late 80s from USSR, we required a sponsor be financially responsible for them so the taxpayer wasn't. 2-In 61 yrs Ellis Island was open, 12m admitted, 0 received welfare. 3-Current illegals/refugees abuse welfare/taxpayer, demographic of immigrant matters

        0 replies 2 retweets 3 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Alexander Kustov‏ @akoustov Oct 12
        Replying to @robinhanson

        Alexander Kustov Retweeted John B. Holbein

        These are great questions! You may enjoy my take on these issues using revealed preference evidence here:https://twitter.com/JohnHolbein1/status/1043195828884537344 …

        Alexander Kustov added,

        John B. Holbein @JohnHolbein1
        Interesting job market paper by @akoustov: "Borders of Compassion" "Voters tend to favor immigration restrictions that they perceive as necessary to secure the well-being of compatriots." #PoliSciMarket https://www.dropbox.com/s/12qwix7y7if2uwh/Borders%20of%20Compassion.pdf?dl=0 … pic.twitter.com/VJ5UFKF95Q
        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. Drew Rosenberg‏ @drewrosenberg_ Oct 13
        Replying to @akoustov @robinhanson

        This is a great paper

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. Kevin Thomson‏ @kevindthomson Oct 12
        Replying to @robinhanson

        "Citizenship comes with a set of rights and responsibilities that we do not share with those in other countries. Yet the “cosmopolitan” part of the ethical guideline ignores any special obligations we have toward our fellow citizens." Deaton in 2016.https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/06/angus-deaton-do-we-need-to-rethink-the-robin-hood-principle/ …

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      1. David‏ @wellydog67 Oct 12
        Replying to @robinhanson

        Are the countries of the West still nations in any meaningful sense?

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      1. Otto I‏ @TTallis1505 Oct 12
        Replying to @robinhanson @Cernovich

        Surely it can’t be “whoever sneaks over the border.”

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. eworden78‏ @eworden78 Oct 12
        Replying to @robinhanson

        I see a key question as: What is the optimal economic and cultural synthesis rate? Or How do balance the influx of new culture and human resource, with the preservation of existing culture and infrastructure?

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. 1 more reply
      1. Sean Horan‏ @seanh303 Oct 12
        Replying to @robinhanson

        1. Nothing beyond what's required by ratified treaty, international law, and sovereign law. 2. Law abiding = welcome to try and make it. Break the law lose your privilege to earn citizenship or remain.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      2. zel‏ @zelwun Oct 13
        Replying to @robinhanson

        Fundamentally, the issue is what constitutes a ‘just’ claim to territory, allowing for it to be monopolized by some group, and how current territorial possession can be made just if it's not already.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. zel‏ @zelwun Oct 13
        Replying to @zelwun @robinhanson

        Further, if we take citizenship, residence, et cetera as ‘shares’ in ownership of a territory, as membership in a firm that owns territory, membership in a state, what are just means of granting and revoking that membership?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. zel‏ @zelwun Oct 13
        Replying to @zelwun @robinhanson

        Does the constitutional structure of the state, viewed as a contract of sorts, exhaust this question? That is, if the means of granting and revoking membership are constitutional, are they just? Or should determinations of justice be made according to other criteria?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. zel‏ @zelwun Oct 13
        Replying to @zelwun @robinhanson

        Even further, and perhaps relevant to questions of justice, can we design mechanisms for determining membership that produce economically efficient allocations, where membership, along with compensation to relevant parties, is only granted when it’s an economic improvement?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. zel‏ @zelwun Oct 13
        Replying to @zelwun @robinhanson

        We need to start viewing territory as a good, distinct from land which only entails being unproduced, where residence is the right to jointly utilize it. Different allocations of these rights have economic consequences, and we can ask efficiency questions about those allocations.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. zel‏ @zelwun Oct 13
        Replying to @zelwun @robinhanson

        I have work in progress on all of these topics, follow if you’re interested.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. End of conversation
      1. Nick Holt‏ @radbad1735 Oct 13
        Replying to @robinhanson

        For thorough discussion, see Harari (2018), 21 Lessons for the 21st Century, Chapter 9, “Immigration”.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Tim Freeman‏ @ovjocm Oct 13
        Replying to @robinhanson

        To start with, do you have a definition of "nation" that you are happy with?

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. (((theophilus)))‏ @pammalamma Oct 13
        Replying to @robinhanson

        I would like to see an admission that if we “should” allow refugees to enter and deportation is “inhumane,” that implies patriotism. Therefore patriotism is not “fascist” or “evil.”

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      1. Ben Turner‏ @BT_BXL Oct 13
        Replying to @robinhanson

        Historically citizenship most often linked to military service and political participation. Paying taxes and not breaking law other obvious ones. Maybe could make PP and welfare dependent on the other three but without possibility of expulsion becomes difficult.

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