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richhickey's profile
Rich Hickey
Rich Hickey
Rich Hickey
@richhickey

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Rich Hickey

@richhickey

clojure.org
Joined June 2009

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    1. Bodil Stokke, Esq.‏ @bodil 6 Jan 2018
      • Report Tweet
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      Bodil Stokke, Esq. Retweeted Cognitect, Inc.

      Wow, I think Clojure just jumped the shark.https://twitter.com/cognitect/status/949350240108339202 …

      Bodil Stokke, Esq. added,

      Cognitect, Inc. @cognitect
      Git deps for #clojure! https://clojure.org/news/2018/01/05/git-deps …
      4 replies 3 retweets 30 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Bodil Stokke, Esq.‏ @bodil 6 Jan 2018
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      Go: maybe using Git as a package manager wasn't the best idea after all, let's see if we can back slowly and responsibly out of this Clojure: LEEEEEEEEROY JENKINS

      1 reply 17 retweets 80 likes
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    3. Bodil Stokke, Esq.‏ @bodil 6 Jan 2018
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      I mean, git deps are fine as long as they aren't allowed in release artifacts. But, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but this reads like "git hashes are now release artifacts."

      3 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
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    4. Bodil Stokke, Esq.‏ @bodil 6 Jan 2018
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      The important property of a repository of release artifacts is that it offers immutability guarantees: artifacts are available in perpetuity and cannot change once published, barring legal intervention. Git offers none of this.

      3 replies 1 retweet 16 likes
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    5. Bodil Stokke, Esq.‏ @bodil 6 Jan 2018
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      And, given that Clojure is what taught me the value of immutability in the first place, this design decision is particularly puzzling.

      2 replies 3 retweets 18 likes
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    6. Rich Hickey‏ @richhickey 6 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @bodil

      Immutability of what? SHAs beat locations, that's why artifact sources publish SHAs. If you use SHAs you will get what you intended based upon content identity, regardless of source. Immutability only makes sense in a controlled memory space, which the internet isn't.

      1 reply 1 retweet 16 likes
    7. Bodil Stokke, Esq.‏ @bodil 6 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @richhickey

      I'm not worried about hashes vs versions, but about availability. Random git repositories vanish or break with more frequency than trusted registries, and are harder to cache against outages.

      4 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Rich Hickey‏ @richhickey 6 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @bodil

      Availability != immutability. Plenty of mitigations for the former. There's no basis for what you are saying about caching. All bytes are equally cacheable.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    9. Bodil Stokke, Esq.‏ @bodil 6 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @richhickey

      The immutability I'm talking about is local to the registry in question, obviously. And unless you address the problem of availability, is there any reason to expect it'll have fewer problems this time round than Erlang and Go have had?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Rich Hickey‏ @richhickey 6 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @bodil

      Availability is always addressed via redundancy. But redundant maven repos break your immutability-is-local idea while redundant git repos don't break SHAs. Go tracked HEAD, had no pinning? Dunno. Later planes had fewer problems than earlier ones, shrug. #fearmongering

      6:48 AM - 6 Jan 2018
      • 1 Retweet
      • 8 Likes
      • Chris Concannon ǝɹpuɐ richards Ghadi Shayban dan kersten Jeremie Pelletier Stephen Johnston Simon Van Casteren Piyush Katariya Manuel Rivero
      1 reply 1 retweet 8 likes
        1. dan kersten‏ @danielytics 6 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @richhickey @bodil

          I wouldn’t say fearmongering as much as having concerns. I do think your response answered the concerns though (at least for me). Keep up the good work 👍😃

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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