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redlightvoices's profile
Flavia Dzodan
Flavia Dzodan
Flavia Dzodan
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@redlightvoices

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Flavia DzodanVerified account

@redlightvoices

Writer; feminist; Latina; sudaca; immigrant; I don't rant, I write manifestos. https://www.patreon.com/flaviadzodan  contact@thispoliticalwoman.com

Amsterdam, The Netherlands
medium.com/this-political…
Joined July 2010

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    1. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

      Flavia Dzodan Retweeted Flavia Dzodan

      btw I did this thread of threads about incels the other day but there's one thing that journos who are new to the "genre" seem to get wrong: the "involuntary" part is rooted in entitlement and the belief that they didn't "choose" celibacy while simultaneously making it a choicehttps://twitter.com/redlightvoices/status/989114588913393665 …

      Flavia Dzodan added,

      Flavia DzodanVerified account @redlightvoices
      Some timely reminders now that incels are again on mainstream news https://twitter.com/redlightvoices/status/968412049591226368 …
      Show this thread
      6 replies 283 retweets 517 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

      if you trace the belief system to its origins, you see that they claimed they were sexless because they were "denied" sex. But that evolved into an active choice to withdraw themselves from opportunities to have sex. There is an overlap between incels and some in "No Fap" groups

      4 replies 19 retweets 116 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

      in the very beginning, I'd say around 2011? 12? at least when I first noticed them, they were a sort of spin off of MRAs. They weren't fully formed politically (not in the way they are now, at least) and they still engaged in discussions about "how to have sex" or go on dates etc

      2 replies 13 retweets 75 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

      but eventually, they became politically attached to this label which, it should be noted, they turned into the most reactionary form of "identity politics" (while violently attacking PoC and other minorities for being "SJW").

      1 reply 15 retweets 95 likes
      Show this thread
    5. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

      so, the mistake some journos are making, in my opinion, is taking the "involuntary" part in "incel" at face value. For many of these men there's nothing involuntary about it. It's an active choice.

      3 replies 34 retweets 125 likes
      Show this thread
    6. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

      Let's not forget they came into existence when they felt that the pick up artists "failed" them because they were promised sex if they followed their techniques and when no sex materialized, they felt that they were victims of fraud

      4 replies 36 retweets 137 likes
      Show this thread
      Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

      at the very beginning (again, the TLs are a bit fuzzy but I'd say 2012 or so?), most of incel discourse was devoted to "exposing" the scam of pick up artistry. Because they had followed the "instructions" and failed to have sex.

      3:08 AM - 27 Apr 2018
      • 18 Retweets
      • 86 Likes
      • 💜𝕂𝕚𝕝𝕝 𝔸𝕝𝕝 ℕ𝕒𝕫𝕚𝕤💜 Steph Ariane ⚧ Helga G. Pataki Blanca Hernández M Linnea Tuominen Evelyn Almgren Billiard Lentil De. Skrl.
      4 replies 18 retweets 86 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

          by forming these communities (which mostly happened on reddit and 4chan at the time), through in group dynamics, they "evolved" politically turning "inceldom" into a choice that was characterized by violent discussions abt how to harm women

          1 reply 16 retweets 81 likes
          Show this thread
        3. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

          at the beginning they hated men who had relationships with women as much as they hated women. Again, that evolved and their main focus is now on harming women (though they sometimes express deep disdain for men they call "Chads" who are socially successful)

          2 replies 17 retweets 91 likes
          Show this thread
        4. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

          initially my interest in them was because of how they had spun from MRAs and pick up artists and at the time I was interested in how white men were using the internet to network and form communities of affinity (something I initially became interested in through Anders Breivik)

          1 reply 14 retweets 79 likes
          Show this thread
        5. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

          what I didn't anticipate at the time and only became clear years later was how the initial neo nazi networks/forums I was interested in would "evolve" to include MRAs, incels, identitarians, etc. These groups became what is now known as "the alt right"

          2 replies 23 retweets 104 likes
          Show this thread
        6. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

          another mistake, imo, journalists make is to remain attached to the idea that these men are "ironic" and "shitposting". They aren't. This is an old narrative (again, 2012?) attached to the mainstreaming of 4chan. the idea that the politics of 4chan were "ironic" (they never were)

          1 reply 47 retweets 157 likes
          Show this thread
        7. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

          nobody took these politics seriously (because "it's just a joke, nobody can *really* believe this stuff, right?") and we ended up with Brexit, Trump, Farage and Baudet. Yes, they believe this and they get platforms to access power

          4 replies 56 retweets 164 likes
          Show this thread
        8. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

          one thing all these groups have in common is a very strong affinity for eugenics, phrenology and adjacent forms of scientific racism and gender essentialism. I'd venture that these have been the amalgamating factors that brought them together into "the alt right"

          3 replies 38 retweets 134 likes
          Show this thread
        9. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

          a timely essay I published last month: "Towards a post Trump world: Mainstreaming Men’s Rights Activists"https://medium.com/this-political-woman/towards-a-post-trump-world-mainstreaming-mens-rights-activists-2028831085fd …

          1 reply 36 retweets 75 likes
          Show this thread
        10. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

          TL;DR: imo, understanding incels requires situating them in the broader spectrum of right wing violence which includes (but is not limited to) misogyny but is also heavily informed by white supremacy and gender essentialism

          1 reply 65 retweets 186 likes
          Show this thread
        11. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

          not going to go on a tangent now but just going to leave this here: (I'd say all but there might be exceptions I am not aware of) most "nofap" discourses and ideas are rooted in eugenics and antiquated notions of semen as the essence of masculine "energy"

          6 replies 18 retweets 96 likes
          Show this thread
        12. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 27

          here it is! the inception of "inceldom" in 2013 documented by @DavidFutrelle when their whole schtick was directed at pick up artists who "failed" them because they didn't get sex as promisedhttp://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2013/03/01/getting-their-puahate-on/ …

          2 replies 24 retweets 89 likes
          Show this thread
        13. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2.  🦇 Tally Hopeless  🦇‏ @nataliereed84 Apr 28
          Replying to @redlightvoices

          Sounds about right. That's the form it had when I first encountered it, which would have been around 2011 / 2012, and I remember being SO disappointed that they came SO close to understanding the problems with PUAs but then missed it so badly.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Flavia Dzodan‏Verified account @redlightvoices Apr 28
          Replying to @nataliereed84

          instead of identifying the failure of PUA, they directed all their hatred into women for "denying" them what they feel entitled to... and turned the whole thing into an identity

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4.  🦇 Tally Hopeless  🦇‏ @nataliereed84 Apr 28
          Replying to @redlightvoices

          Yeah, it was ridiculous. They took this moment of revelation - that PUAs are scamming vulnerable men - and instead of realizing that these expectations and toxic masculinities and such were illusions that were making them vulnerable, and hurting them, they just... blamed women.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5.  🦇 Tally Hopeless  🦇‏ @nataliereed84 Apr 28
          Replying to @nataliereed84 @redlightvoices

          And of course, now the anti-PUA stuff isn't even there anymore. It's all just dissolved into the amorphous blob of angry, hateful, white cis male entitlement that is the Alt-Right.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        6.  🦇 Tally Hopeless  🦇‏ @nataliereed84 Apr 28
          Replying to @nataliereed84 @redlightvoices

          "We are inherently owed everything by our superior identity, but we mysteriously haven't gotten it, so we're going to punish you all for that".

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. End of conversation
        1. Veridis Quo  🏴‍☠️‏ @VERlDlS Apr 28
          Replying to @redlightvoices

          Tony48219 was 2009. Angry/misguided male Undateable Posted extremist misogynist YouTube rants Outcast by YouTube Ends up on /r9k/ Became effectively involuntary celibate Is inspired to kill Returns to YouTube (briefly) Commits murder/suicide:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTzvaXWiZDE …

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Vicki S Nemeth‏ @vickisnemeth Apr 27
          Replying to @redlightvoices

          Am now thinking of Super Seducer, especially in the teaching cutscenes where the presence / nudity of women symbolizes whether the player chose the right action.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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