But let's go on: is it true that "the fascists were socialists. Hitler led the National Socialist Party, remember?"
-
-
Show this thread
-
This canard has been so often debunked that I can easily point you to a rude refutation and suggest for you an urbane one. Both are fine examples of the form.
Show this thread -
The rude one, by the inimitable
@MikeStuchbery , is here—now I warned you, it is rude—https://twitter.com/MikeStuchbery_/status/898254826277978113?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E898254826277978113&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indy100.com%2Farticle%2Fnazi-socialist-right-wing-white-supremacists-history-twitter-mikestuchbery-7900001 …Show this thread -
For the urbane one, let me quote
@RichardEvans36 :Show this thread -
"Despite the … name, however, it would be wrong to see Nazism as a form of, or an outgrowth from, socialism.…
Show this thread -
"The National Socialists wanted to unite the two political camps of left and right into which, they argued, the Jews had manipulated the German nation.
Show this thread -
"The basis for this was to be the idea of race. This was light years removed from the class-based ideology of socialism.
Show this thread -
"Nazism was in some ways an extreme counter-ideology to socialism, borrowing much of its rhetoric in the process.…"
Show this thread -
(That’s from Evans’s COMING OF THE THIRD REICH)
Show this thread -
This antipathy, between Nazism and socialism, was understood at the time. See for example the reporting of H.R. Knickerbocker, foreign correspondent of the NY Evening Post, who wrote in 1932 from Germany,
Show this thread -
"The Nazis hate in about the following order: 1. Communists 2. Jews 3. Socialists 4. France and her allies 5. The Treaty of Versailles"
Show this thread -
That the fascists or Nazis were socialists is so obviously wrong and has been so fully debunked by fine scholars that I am confident D'Souza, having had it pointed out to him here, and being eager for acceptance by the community of scholars, will cease to perpetuate this canard.
Show this thread -
Now, how about this part? "Also progressives like FDR were enamored of fascists like Mussolini."
Show this thread -
This is one of those statements where you have to know something for it to mean anything.
Show this thread -
Until Hitler came to power, lots of different kinds of Americans had some admiration for Mussolini; liberals and progressives grew skeptical sooner than others.
Show this thread -
As John Diggins writes, Mussolini's US admirers through the 1920s included "countless businessmen” who "waxed rhapsodic over Il Duce as the proper antidote to Bolshevism”;
Show this thread -
-
MBA types who thought of him as "the ideal industrial executive who 'cuts through' and 'gets things done'";
Show this thread -
white Southerners who admired his harking back to an old order;
Show this thread -
-
Liberals and progressives were less keen on Mussolini and for less long than conservatives. As Diggins notes, the center and left took…
Show this thread -
a "friendly interest … best described as a positive but cautious curiosity, one riddled with doubt about the use of violence and the 'moonshine' pretensions of Fascist aspirations."
Show this thread -
As for those we'd today call progressives, The NATION was especially antagonistic to Mussolini, regarding the Ku Klux Klan as the American fascists and insisting that "Democracy works poorly enough, but there is no substitute for it."
Show this thread -
As the Nazis drew closer to power, Mussolini looked more dangerous to liberals. Roosevelt would later say that he'd hoped, while Mussolini remained a fascist outlier, that Italy would eventually revert to democratic normalcy, but
Show this thread -
when Hitler came to power, he knew Mussolini would be drawn further into fascism.
Show this thread -
Roosevelt also hoped through the 1930s to pry Mussolini away from Hitler, in an attempt to isolate Nazi Germany. From January 1933 onward, Roosevelt would try what he could to thwart the rise of Nazism.
Show this thread -
And Roosevelt never really worried about Mussolini because, to be honest, he was fairly racist about Italians; as he said, "I don't care about the Italians. They are a lot of opera singers. But the Germans are different. They may be dangerous."
Show this thread -
As for Roosevelt himself, he wasn't a fascist. (Shouldn’t need saying, but okay, here we are.)
Show this thread -
As Roosevelt said during the 1932 campaign, "Perhaps a Dictator, by suspending legality, could accomplish a ruthless clean-up—but we do not want dictators in the United States. The other penalties of dictatorship are too high."
Show this thread -
Eleanor once asked him if the US wouldn't benefit from a benevolent dictatorship, and he replied (she said) in evident puzzlement that he couldn't understand how she could propose that; there was no guarantee a dictator would remain benevolent.
Show this thread - Show replies
New conversation -
Loading seems to be taking a while.
Twitter may be over capacity or experiencing a momentary hiccup. Try again or visit Twitter Status for more information.
Proud to serve the people of California. My views are but mine own.