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qntm's profile
quarantine 'em
quarantine 'em
quarantine 'em
@qntm

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quarantine 'em

@qntm

I created the Antimemetics Division. http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/antimemetics-division-hub …

qntm.org
Joined September 2009

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    1. quarantine 'em‏ @qntm 27 Apr 2016
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      I've said this before, but: "Emissions test driven development" http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/business/international/vw-presentation-in-06-showed-how-to-foil-emissions-tests.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur …

      1 reply 3 retweets 11 likes
    2. quarantine 'em‏ @qntm 27 Apr 2016
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      Replying to @qntm

      More generally, this is what happens when you have adversarial TDD; when the tests and the code are written by people with conflicting goals

      1 reply 4 retweets 3 likes
    3. quarantine 'em‏ @qntm 27 Apr 2016
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      Replying to @qntm

      We tried adversarial TDD at work once, as an exercise. One person writes one test, the other writes the minimum of code to make it pass

      2 replies 5 retweets 2 likes
    4. quarantine 'em‏ @qntm 27 Apr 2016
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      Replying to @qntm

      We discovered that if e.g. the first test case expects a method to return 1, the first implementation of the method will return 1 every time

      1 reply 4 retweets 1 like
    5. quarantine 'em‏ @qntm 27 Apr 2016
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      Replying to @qntm

      If the second test case expects 2, the implementation will simply be revised to return 1 and 2 alternately.

      1 reply 5 retweets 1 like
    6. quarantine 'em‏ @qntm 27 Apr 2016
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      Replying to @qntm

      The tester had to write a *lot* of tests before the developer gave up and implemented the implementation that was really being tested for

      1 reply 4 retweets 2 likes
    7. quarantine 'em‏ @qntm 27 Apr 2016
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      Replying to @qntm

      And in principle, there is *no* point at which the developer genuinely has to give up. They can fake a working implementation forever.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. quarantine 'em‏ @qntm 27 Apr 2016
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      Replying to @qntm

      If the tester and the developer are not on the same side, it is VERY difficult for the tester to force out the implementation they want

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
      quarantine 'em‏ @qntm 27 Apr 2016
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      This is at the unit test case level. At higher levels, fakery becomes harder, but is still possible if the developer is motivated

      4:33 PM - 27 Apr 2016
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. quarantine 'em‏ @qntm 27 Apr 2016
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          Replying to @qntm

          The crucial point is this: it needs to be impossible to computationally distinguish an emissions test from regular driving

          1 reply 2 retweets 2 likes
        2. quarantine 'em‏ @qntm 27 Apr 2016
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          Replying to @qntm

          If an engine passes your test, and later you wish it hadn't, harden your test. The engine manufacturer is not on your side

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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