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propensive's profile
Jon Pretty
Jon Pretty
Jon Pretty
@propensive

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Jon Pretty

@propensive

Supporting Scala through professional training and open-source software. Responsible for Magnolia, Fury, Scala World and Functional Africa.

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propensive.com
Joined July 2010

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    1. Roland Kuhn‏ @rolandkuhn 8 Feb 2017
      Replying to @tpolecat @propensive

      Logging is not a concern clients should be burdened with, it does not belong into the API.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 8 Feb 2017
      Replying to @rolandkuhn @tpolecat

      What's a "client" here?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Roland Kuhn‏ @rolandkuhn 8 Feb 2017
      Replying to @propensive @tpolecat

      Caller–callee, client–service, what’s the big difference? It is all about modularization and about responsibility.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 8 Feb 2017
      Replying to @rolandkuhn @tpolecat

      Wasn't sure if you meant clients to be just "users of library X"...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 8 Feb 2017
      Replying to @propensive @rolandkuhn @tpolecat

      Anyhow, do you not think it's a problem having logging configured in some uncertain place you can't debug like code?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 8 Feb 2017
      Replying to @propensive @rolandkuhn @tpolecat

      I'm imagining an implicit which could either handle logging itself, or delegate that to some other specific config.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Roland Kuhn‏ @rolandkuhn 8 Feb 2017
      Replying to @propensive @tpolecat

      I sympathise with the sentiment, but to me that is not principled. Logging is monitoring is an integration concern.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Roland Kuhn‏ @rolandkuhn 8 Feb 2017
      Replying to @rolandkuhn @propensive @tpolecat

      Therefore it is validated by developers (debugging) and CI tests / CD ops.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 8 Feb 2017
      Replying to @rolandkuhn @tpolecat

      But as a developer I'd still like to see the logs without doing any integration. A one-line implicit seems a good way.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Roland Kuhn‏ @rolandkuhn 8 Feb 2017
      Replying to @propensive @tpolecat

      … then you cannot deploy those very same bits into production without the implicit becoming isomorphic to logback.xml

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 8 Feb 2017
      Replying to @rolandkuhn @tpolecat

      But difference is that logback.xml is not a known authority on conf. Classpath order and and JVM params can obfuscate.

      6:16 AM - 8 Feb 2017
      • 1 Like
      • Mark Kennedy
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        1. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 8 Feb 2017
          Replying to @propensive @rolandkuhn @tpolecat

          It would also be quite reasonable to implement the implicit with "if(prod) logback.xml else stdout".

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        2. Roland Kuhn‏ @rolandkuhn 8 Feb 2017
          Replying to @propensive @tpolecat

          True, just make sure that `prod == true` during testing.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Show replies
        1. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 8 Feb 2017
          Replying to @propensive @rolandkuhn @tpolecat

          An implicitNotFound msg could also make it obvious how to fix the compile error, and make the dev aware of the choice.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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