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propensive's profile
Jon Pretty
Jon Pretty
Jon Pretty
@propensive

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Jon Pretty

@propensive

Supporting Scala through professional training and open-source software. Responsible for Magnolia, Fury, Scala World and Functional Africa.

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propensive.com
Joined July 2010

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    1. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive Feb 11
      Replying to @berenguel @dilyan_damyanov

      That's understood, but why make it harder for the student by choosing a case without a one-to-one mapping between articles and genders?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Ruben Berenguel, PhD‏ @berenguel Feb 11
      Replying to @propensive @dilyan_damyanov

      My German is a bit oldie (haven't spoken or written almost any in 11 years) but gender != plural, the mapping is 1-1: a word is eithre masculine, feminine or neutral (and each can be plural as well)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive Feb 11
      Replying to @berenguel @dilyan_damyanov

      No, that's absolutely correct, but there are six possible cases (der, die, das, den, dem, des) which are distributed across the different combinations of case, gender and singular/plural. But if we ignore plural, then "die" is *uniquely* feminine, "das" is *uniquely* neuter...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive Feb 11
      Replying to @propensive @berenguel @dilyan_damyanov

      but "der" is *not uniquely* masculine. However, *den" would be *uniquely* masculine, which I'm claiming makes it a better choice to learn. den/die/das can all be in the same case, too. So for singular words there exists a one-to-one mapping between article and gender.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Ruben Berenguel, PhD‏ @berenguel Feb 11
      Replying to @propensive @dilyan_damyanov

      I'm not seeing why _der_ is not uniquely masculine. It is _in the nominative case_ and nominative case is what should be used for this? Maybe I'm not following, but you have to use nominative when learning/teaching because otherwise it means you need to learn cases before nouns

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive Feb 11
      Replying to @berenguel @dilyan_damyanov

      I'm not sure you do need to learn nominative first. Almost any interesting sentence needs an accusative or dative noun. Is it any worse if you say "Den Mann isst den Fisch" than "Der Mann isst der Fisch"?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive Feb 11
      Replying to @propensive @berenguel @dilyan_damyanov

      I was always only talking about singular nouns, but "der" is *uniquely* masculine only if you know about cases and you're in the nominative case, whereas "den" is *uniquely* masculine across all cases, assuming only singularity (which is an easier concept than cases for most).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive Feb 11
      Replying to @propensive @berenguel @dilyan_damyanov

      My problem is that all the teaching seems to strongly associate "der" with masculine words, which means that if you read a feminine word in dative or genitive case, you'll associate it with being masculine, incorrectly.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive Feb 11
      Replying to @propensive @berenguel @dilyan_damyanov

      So if you're trying to work out whether a word is masculine, feminine or neuter, you can think back through all the German phrases you've heard or read, and you might remember hearing "der Fisch" or "der Katze" without knowing the case, then wrongly assume they're masculine.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Ruben Berenguel, PhD‏ @berenguel Feb 11
      Replying to @propensive @dilyan_damyanov

      Usually I go through: - memory: do I know it? - heuristics: endings in certain consonants or vowels - Google

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Jon Pretty‏ @propensive Feb 11
      Replying to @berenguel @dilyan_damyanov

      I'm the same, but I've been taught over years to listen out for "der <word>" as an indicator of masculinity, when that's going to cause so many false positives, as half of them will be "die words"...

      9:27 AM - 11 Feb 2021
      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

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