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propensive's profile
Jon Pretty
Jon Pretty
Jon Pretty
@propensive

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Jon Pretty

@propensive

Supporting Scala through professional training and open-source software. Responsible for Magnolia, Fury, Scala World and Functional Africa.

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propensive.com
Joined July 2010

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    Jon Pretty‏ @propensive Feb 11

    Why do all German language resources suggest learning nouns with "der, die and das"? Assuming the noun is singular, a noun heard in context with either "die" and "das" can have its gender uniquely inferred. But "der" could be male or female. So why not learn "den, die and das"?

    5:41 AM - 11 Feb 2021
    • 5 Likes
    • Anis Fehri Marcin Krykowski Kevin Browder Ratan Sebastian Wiem 2.4-RC-2603
    7 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Andrey Hihlovskiy‏ @AndreyHihlovski Feb 11
        Replying to @propensive

        Nice try to attach logic to language, but no, it does not work that way

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      3. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive Feb 11
        Replying to @AndreyHihlovski

        The language... sure. But there should at least be logic to the way it's taught!

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Show replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Dilyan Damyanov‏ @dilyan_damyanov Feb 11
        Replying to @propensive

        Der can be f or m but not in the same case. And knowing what the case is is uniquely applicable to the article so the two can’t be separated. Eg, in Dativ der is always f. But what if you don’t know it’s Dativ? Well, then it doesn’t really matter which article you use.

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      3. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive Feb 11
        Replying to @dilyan_damyanov

        I just feel that when you start learning German you learn these associations: der = masc., die = fem., das = neut. and then you see "der Schule" for the first time, so you'd assume it's masculine. If you learned "den = masculine" instead then you might be confused but not wrong.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Show replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Erik Schnetter‏ @eschnett Feb 11
        Replying to @propensive

        Nice try, but: "den Frauen" is a thing (Dativ plural), yet the word "Frau" is grammatically female.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive Feb 11
        Replying to @eschnett

        I did say, "assuming the noun is singular" though.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. David Strsss‏ @alephnull42 Feb 11
        Replying to @propensive

        a) You cannot fight the power of decades-old Sesame Street collective subconscious https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDk8iIjxHYM … b) .... and the power of the rhyme with "wer wie was"

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive Feb 11
        Replying to @alephnull42

        I guess making the argument for "wen, wie, was" has about as much chance of success as the survival of "whom" in English (which is basically doomed after my generation).

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Show replies
      1. Cam‏ @CamHasHemi Feb 11
        Replying to @propensive

        Der, die, das are the nominative articles, and nominative is by far the most common case. I think it's more about that than choosing a unique identifier. "der Schule" is confusing, but I don't think a misunderstanding of cases can be made up for.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Luka Jacobowitz  🏳️‍🌈‏ @LukaJacobowitz Feb 11
        Replying to @propensive

        I think teaching people the accusative first would be more confusing than the overloaded meanings of 'der' and 'die'

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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