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propensive's profile
Jon Pretty
Jon Pretty
Jon Pretty
@propensive

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Jon Pretty

@propensive

Supporting Scala through professional training and open-source software. Responsible for Magnolia, Fury, Scala World and Functional Africa.

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propensive.com
Joined July 2010

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    1. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 3 Aug 2020
      Replying to @alexelcu

      The best cease and desist letter is the one that doesn't even need to be sent... ;) But seriously, there's so much nuance in the interpretation of various tweets that in the case of @jdegoes, everyone should at least be very precise in their criticisms.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 3 Aug 2020
      Replying to @propensive @alexelcu @jdegoes

      There is so much ill-will and mixed context that it's very easy to characterize "aggressive marketing" as "bullying" or "disagreement" as "arguing". If anything, I'd encourage people to be focused in every reply, because there's a wide gray area that's exacerbating the problem.

      1 reply 0 retweets 14 likes
    3. Alex Nedelcu‏ @alexelcu 3 Aug 2020
      Replying to @propensive

      I'm no longer interested in gray areas or giving him the benefit of the doubt, sorry. That ship has sailed. I guess I'm doing some "aggressive marketing" and "arguing" right now too, and will continue to do so 🤷‍♂️ Please don't bring him again in my mentions.

      2 replies 0 retweets 17 likes
    4. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 3 Aug 2020
      Replying to @alexelcu

      I wasn't talking about giving anyone the benefit of the doubt (I know that's lost already) and the gray areas are very much on both sides. I'm saying the opposite: be precise in your criticism so you are not misinterpreted by the people you need to convince.

      3 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    5. Mario Pastorelli‏ @mapastr 3 Aug 2020
      Replying to @propensive @alexelcu

      This is not fair. Alex is has been very precise in his criticism in the past. It's disheartening to see every discussion with you boiling down to you telling the other person to be better. This is particularly bad when you read your own approach to criticize him.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    6. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 3 Aug 2020
      Replying to @mapastr @alexelcu

      I agree that Alex is usually very precise, but I'm getting exasperated trying to find ways to deescalate this ongoing disagreement, when literally none of the parties involved are enjoying it, whilst at the same time increasingly unable to tolerate each other.

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    7. Mario Pastorelli‏ @mapastr 3 Aug 2020
      Replying to @propensive @alexelcu

      I get that, I really do. It's a commendable effort but you need to come to term with the possibility of failure. You can't let it affect you and make you answer impulsively. The way I see it, you are just reinforcing other people ideas in this way.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 3 Aug 2020
      Replying to @mapastr @alexelcu

      I would certainly encourage everyone to avoid answering impulsively. After being dragged into a conversation I didn't want to be in just over a week ago, I can recommend against impulsive answers.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    9. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 3 Aug 2020
      Replying to @propensive @mapastr @alexelcu

      But what would failure look like? A segregated community where people don't, can't or won't agree, where there's no pushback against mutual antagonism, and one where nobody actually cares about it any more because they've given up?

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 3 Aug 2020
      Replying to @propensive @mapastr @alexelcu

      I still care about it because it's not the welcoming community I want to be a part of. There were huge efforts made to make functional programming more welcoming to newcomers, particularly minorities, and that's a value I want to uphold and encourage.

      1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
      Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 3 Aug 2020
      Replying to @propensive @mapastr @alexelcu

      Right now, there seems to be a general lack of awareness about how offputting a community dominated by angry, middle-aged, white men looks. Sure, I'm all of those things too. But I'd like people to say least have some hope that it doesn't have to be this way.

      5:27 AM - 3 Aug 2020 from Krakow, Poland
      • 1 Retweet
      • 14 Likes
      • Be the change you want to see in life Mark Lewis Lander Functional Walrus Luis Sisamon Jim O'Flaherty Scale by the Bay curious corn, gilded cage
      4 replies 1 retweet 14 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Mario Pastorelli‏ @mapastr 3 Aug 2020
          Replying to @propensive @alexelcu

          What I don't understand is what you are expecting from libraries authors affected by the "aggressive marketing". They can be nice and fight marketing with facts but it gets tiring. Eventually they either give up or fight back. Both are bad but you can't blame authors.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        3. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 3 Aug 2020
          Replying to @mapastr @alexelcu

          Well, I don't think I or anyone else should be surprised when someone promotes or defends something they have devoted time and effort to. There's nothing surprising about Raúl defending against perceived criticism of Cats, or John pushing his own libraries and ideas.

          6 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        4. Show replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Ruby knows why Cassandra lost her mind‏ @Ruby 3 Aug 2020
          Replying to @propensive @mapastr @alexelcu

          When I see you defending aggressors like DeGoes and then saying "both sides" you are perfectly reinforcing the middle-aged white male bias that people have come to expect from fp (and much of tech). Please consider what your goal is and what role you can play in achieving it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Ruby knows why Cassandra lost her mind‏ @Ruby 4 Aug 2020
          Replying to @Ruby @propensive and

          Funny how much time Jon spends arguing with other men in this thread but 🦗 when I point out what he's doing. 🤔

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Alex Nedelcu‏ @alexelcu 4 Aug 2020
          Replying to @propensive @mapastr

          Alex Nedelcu Retweeted Jon Pretty

          It is off-putting. And you're part of the problem. I still remember when you spoke against TL's decision to ban JdG from participation, as if people aren't entitled to choose how they spend their free time and resources.https://twitter.com/propensive/status/1170098827480752134 …

          Alex Nedelcu added,

          Jon Pretty @propensive
          I was privileged to receive advance notification from @typelevel about @jdegoes's ban a day earlier, along with further information about the motivation and process leading up to the ban, which was not shared publicly. However, I dispute several of the assertions made. /3
          Show this thread
          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Alex Nedelcu‏ @alexelcu 4 Aug 2020
          Replying to @alexelcu @propensive @mapastr

          I've seen you do this for some time now. You're thinking that John is here to stay, so might as well make the best of it. You're not taking into account that many of us will never accept his abusive behavior. Or maybe you are, but hope that we'll go away or shut up.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Show replies

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