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propensive's profile
Jon Pretty
Jon Pretty
Jon Pretty
@propensive

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Jon Pretty

@propensive

Supporting Scala through professional training and open-source software. Responsible for Magnolia, Fury, Scala World and Functional Africa.

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propensive.com
Joined July 2010

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    1. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 31 Mar 2020

      Jon Pretty Retweeted Jon Pretty

      Corollary: "class hierarchies" become "class dynasties".https://twitter.com/propensive/status/1244903422643572736 …

      Jon Pretty added,

      Jon Pretty @propensive
      Idea: Let's rename "inheritance" to "nepotism", and give it the negative connotations it deserves.
      7 replies 2 retweets 35 likes
    2. Nicolas Rinaudo‏ @NicolasRinaudo 31 Mar 2020
      Replying to @propensive

      I’m trying very hard to not jump in and say that actually, you’re not talking about inheritance but subclassing- one implies the other, but they’re not the same. Clearly I failed.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 31 Mar 2020
      Replying to @NicolasRinaudo

      I think I never considered anything other than subclass inheritance to be inheritance... though I've been encouraging careful distinction between subtyping and inheritance for years...

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Nicolas Rinaudo‏ @NicolasRinaudo 31 Mar 2020
      Replying to @propensive

      But subclass inheritance implies subtyping, doesn’t it? I agree that inheritance and subtyping are distinct concepts, but if you consider that only subclass inheritance exists, how is it distinct from subtyping?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 31 Mar 2020
      Replying to @NicolasRinaudo

      Subtyping concerns a superset relationship on the set of provable properties of a type (e.g. method signatures), and inheritance concerns the sharing of the runtime implementations of none, some, most or all those properties, and is conferred (only, I thought...) by subclassing.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Nicolas Rinaudo‏ @NicolasRinaudo 31 Mar 2020
      Replying to @propensive

      Here’s my current understanding: subtyping is telling you “A is a B”, inheritance “A has access to a known subset of B’s code”. I believe modules can inherit from one another and they’re not classes, the same argument goes for typeclasses.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Nicolas Rinaudo‏ @NicolasRinaudo 31 Mar 2020
      Replying to @NicolasRinaudo @propensive

      There is, of course, clearly an ancestor / descendant relationship, but it needs not be semantic - subclassing mixes the two, at least in languages like scala and java, but it’s not a necessity. C++ has inheritance without subtyping, java subtyping without inheritance

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Nicolas Rinaudo‏ @NicolasRinaudo 31 Mar 2020
      Replying to @NicolasRinaudo @propensive

      /rant

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 31 Mar 2020
      Replying to @NicolasRinaudo

      I'm coming to the conclusion that "subclassing" should only ever be used to talk about relationships between classes, not between types (or instances). Does applying that constraint remove some ambiguity?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Nicolas Rinaudo‏ @NicolasRinaudo 31 Mar 2020
      Replying to @propensive

      Mmm... I might have assumed the wrong implied flaws when you talked about the negative connotations of inheritance. I assumed inflexible hierarchies (and related issues), but that’s not what you meant, is it?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 31 Mar 2020
      Replying to @NicolasRinaudo

      That is the main thing, along with how it facilitates code which depends on non-contractual details of the inherited implementation which get falsified when someone overrides one of them. Let's call these "insincere invariants".

      4:42 AM - 31 Mar 2020 from Krakow, Poland
      • 1 Like
      • François Armand
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 31 Mar 2020
          Replying to @propensive @NicolasRinaudo

          I'm not sure whether overriding or the default of nonfinality should be more specifically to blame here than inheritance itself, but I was lumping them together as part of the same problem.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Nicolas Rinaudo‏ @NicolasRinaudo 31 Mar 2020
          Replying to @propensive

          Right, and that’s why I reacted - this lumping is correct with mainstream OOP but some flaws are subtyping specific and other inheritance specific. But perhaps I’ve carried this thread on too far, apologies :)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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