Jon Pretty

your rationalization isn't true. I've been running online communities for a couple decades, and every time something like this happens, someone who has no experience in this pops up and starts throwing around exactly the arguments you have been using. They're red herrings.

Which part of my rationalization? I think you might be misinterpreting the strength of any claims I'm making.

All I'm saying is, *given* that this is the reality (and it is, the evidence is that @fpmortals got banned again), there are ways he could behave differently to avoid it happening again. I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm not trying to fix forums or moderation for everyone.

I don't believe cars should be dangerous. I support anything which makes them safer. But I still advocate wearing a seatbelt when you're in one.

What you're advocating for here is that @fpmortals accepts his bullying and acts like a convenient little user with a properly policed voice. That's not a seatbelt, it's a whip.

I am advocating for that, though you're stretching the moral equivalence a little. I'm not saying I believe it's right or ideal, but in the absence of something which is, I'm saying that if he needs to be aware of the way the forums seem to operate, if he wants that audience.

that, too, is not good enough.

I'm just describing what I see, and trying to suggest the best way people can make the most progress with what we have. I would be fully supportive of anything which improves it, but for as long as that doesn't exist, I'm trying to find the best way to work with what's there.