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propensive's profile
Jon Pretty
Jon Pretty
Jon Pretty
@propensive

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Jon Pretty

@propensive

Supporting Scala through professional training and open-source software. Responsible for Magnolia, Fury, Scala World and Functional Africa.

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propensive.com
Joined July 2010

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    1. Daniel Spiewak‏ @djspiewak 10 Aug 2018

      I’ve been spending time recently thinking about PGP signatures and SBT. Specifically, thinking about trust models, threat models, and how to realistically (read: both in meaning and in terms of user adoption) verify build artifacts. My conclusion thus far: everything is awful.

      2 replies 5 retweets 30 likes
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    2. Daniel Spiewak‏ @djspiewak 10 Aug 2018

      Here’s the root of the problem… Artifact signing is supposed to be a tool to make sure the artifact was published by who you think it was. It is designed to be verified by whoever downloaded the artifact (so, SBT). Ignore the “key claiming/trust” problem. How do we trust SBT?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Daniel Spiewak‏ @djspiewak 10 Aug 2018

      A major attack vector removed by signature checks is MITM on artifact acquisition. SBT *itself* and all of its plugins are obtained as artifacts! So… how can we trust SBT’s own verification?

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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    4. Daniel Spiewak‏ @djspiewak 10 Aug 2018

      Our trust in our random artifacts is effectively the same as our trust in SBT. So we need an external verifier, like a signed secure launcher. But everyone launches SBT using random scripts they curled off the inter webs.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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    5. Daniel Spiewak‏ @djspiewak 10 Aug 2018

      Probably the only way to resolve this is to get Travis (and other CIs) into the fray. They need to do signature checks on build tool launchers, checked against key lists they control and curate. Then bootstrap from there.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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    6. Daniel Spiewak‏ @djspiewak 10 Aug 2018

      If we can get a trusted SBT script, it can embed keys to verify SBT and a global verification plugin, which can verify everything else in the build. Still doesn’t even touch the artifact verification and key claiming problem, but at least the ground is no longer quicksand.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Show this thread
    7. Daniel Spiewak‏ @djspiewak 10 Aug 2018

      As it stands (the ecosystem), there’s almost no point in working on artifact signature checks, since all of the same threats that could compromise artifacts would *also* compromise SBT itself and, by extension, the signature verification.

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      Jon Pretty‏ @propensive 13 Aug 2018
      Replying to @djspiewak

      I'm concerned about this for Fury. How would you feel about Fury's installer being a readable bash script which builds it from sources it downloads from Github? You would still need to trust the Scala compiler that's used, at least until I can build that from source, too.

      5:14 AM - 13 Aug 2018 from Milan, Lombardy
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Daniel Spiewak‏ @djspiewak 13 Aug 2018
          Replying to @propensive

          You would need hard-coded signature checks on the scala compiler and on the source tarball (and all its dependencies). Basically the same as what SBT needs to do, but with a source stage.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Lgd. Viktor Klang‏ @viktorklang 13 Aug 2018
          Replying to @djspiewak @propensive

          But you also need to verify that the CPU and JVM hasn't been compromised. So you need to build the same artifact on many machines and compare artifact hashes.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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