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primalpoly's profile
Geoffrey Miller
Geoffrey Miller
Geoffrey Miller
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@primalpoly

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Geoffrey MillerVerified account

@primalpoly

Psychology professor; wrote The Mating Mind, Spent, Mate, & Virtue Signaling. Agnostic centrist into evolution, sex, sentience, freedom & future.

New Mexico
primalpoly.com
Joined September 2015

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    1. Dave Curtis‏ @davecurtis314 Feb 18
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      So we have an absolute ceiling on our ability to assess an individual’s genetic fitness from either their current performance or from their genome and we know that the potential ability to do this is extremely low, far too low to be useful for selective breeding. 10/n

      4 replies 118 retweets 997 likes
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    2. Dave Curtis‏ @davecurtis314 Feb 18
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      We should bear in mind that harsh selection pressures have been acting on humans up to the present and that there may be very little scope for overall improvement. In any event, we can confidently say that selective breeding to improve desirable traits is not practicable. 11/n

      10 replies 121 retweets 962 likes
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    3. Dave Curtis‏ @davecurtis314 Feb 18
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      What about removing deleterious characteristics? This was a prominent aim of previous eugenic enterprises. Recent work has shown many cases of severe intellectual disability are due to what are called de novo genetic mutations. 12/n

      8 replies 105 retweets 848 likes
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    4. Dave Curtis‏ @davecurtis314 Feb 18
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      A de novo mutation is one which happens around the time the embryo is formed and means that the child has a new genetic variant which was not present in either parent. So a child with severe learning disability can be born to perfectly healthy parents. 13/n

      8 replies 128 retweets 970 likes
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    5. Dave Curtis‏ @davecurtis314 Feb 18
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      Many other cases of severe intellectual disability occur as a result of recessive variants, where each healthy parent carries one copy of the variant but only the child who inherits two copies of it is affected. 14/n

      1 reply 89 retweets 766 likes
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    6. Dave Curtis‏ @davecurtis314 Feb 18
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      With a recessive disease it may be possible to eliminate cases of the disease from the population using a combination of carrier testing, prenatal screening and selective termination. However this is not eugenics because the variants are still present in the population. 15/n

      13 replies 98 retweets 835 likes
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    7. Dave Curtis‏ @davecurtis314 Feb 18
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      Everybody carries variants which are harmless but which would have a damaging effect if a child inherited another copy from the other parent. So selective breeding cannot eliminate carriers of recessive conditions from the population because everybody is a carrier. 16/n

      5 replies 109 retweets 897 likes
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    8. Dave Curtis‏ @davecurtis314 Feb 18
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      Selective breeding cannot eliminate cases which are due to de novo mutations nor those due to recessive effects. Parents of children with de novo mutations are themselves genetically normal. Recessively acting variants are carried by everybody. 17/n

      7 replies 105 retweets 851 likes
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    9. Dave Curtis‏ @davecurtis314 Feb 18
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      De novo and recessive effects account for a large proportion of genetic causes of intellectual disability and also to a lesser extent contribute to many other conditions, including autism and schizophrenia. 18/n

      11 replies 94 retweets 811 likes
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    10. Dave Curtis‏ @davecurtis314 Feb 18
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      TLDR: People who support eugenics initiatives are evil racists. Also, modern genetic research shows that eugenics would not work. 19/end

      187 replies 1,326 retweets 5,407 likes
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      Geoffrey Miller‏Verified account @primalpoly Feb 18
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      Replying to @davecurtis314

      By your reasoning, mate choice for genetic quality couldn't ever 'work' in any species -- & sexual selection couldn't have shaped any sexual ornaments. Yet, we have examples in thousands of species of mate choice favoring massively polygenic, moderately heritable complex traits.

      12:32 PM - 18 Feb 2020
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      • exemplary non-bot Wunted Humpus Dale MrandMrsJohnQSmith 🇸🇪 🇺🇸 John Smith 🦅𝓡𝒜𝒵𝒜𝒩𝒰𝑅🇧🇷 Dumby LusaAthena Brønsted Lowry
      7 replies 3 retweets 53 likes
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        2. Holtz‏ @Biorealism Feb 18
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          Replying to @primalpoly @davecurtis314

          Indeed. As @Evolutionistrue says artificial selection will work if a trait has any positive heritability. Which is the case for all complex traits. https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2020/02/16/dawkins-makes-a-tweet/ …pic.twitter.com/NNFvethjZG

          1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
        3. Dr Greig Lennon‏ @Aardvark_Sco Feb 18
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          Replying to @Biorealism @primalpoly and

          But again, this all pre-supposes we know which traits to choose. We may be able to grow taller, or more “Aryan master-race” people, but we don’t know that selecting for these same traits won’t lead to us all being susceptible to a new strain of ‘flu, or more prone to alzheimers.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
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        1. Jason Slot‏ @fungolution Feb 18
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          Replying to @primalpoly @davecurtis314

          I am searching for where any of this argues against sexual selection. Eugenics is planned selection for arbitrarily chosen traits. Sexual selection searches vast phenotypic space for signals of current fitness. One is pseudorational, the other empirical.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
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        1. mrsean2k‏ @mrsean2k Feb 18
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          Replying to @primalpoly @davecurtis314

          An enlightening thread, but it seemed to me that "eliminate" as a goal is unattainable in most fields even with widespread agreement that whatever is being eliminated is undesirable. And what does "work" mean in this context? Different things to different people, surely?

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Philia ἀλήθεια‏ @Kaukning Feb 18
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          Replying to @primalpoly @Biorealism @davecurtis314

          To counter the anti-eugenists, that is to say those who oppose research, we should attack the fact that before the 19th century, man could not fly. Eugenics is a technical and technological challenge. But it is theoretically valid.

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        2. Dr Greig Lennon‏ @Aardvark_Sco Feb 18
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          Replying to @primalpoly @davecurtis314

          U seemed to have missed the whole point. Sexual selection is a naturally-occurring process which plays-out over 10,000s of years & upon which natural selection acts as a brake. The “traits” selected by eugenicists are arbitrary & have unknown effects our species genetic fitness.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Dr Greig Lennon‏ @Aardvark_Sco Feb 18
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          Replying to @Aardvark_Sco @primalpoly @davecurtis314

          Also, we aren’t animals. We have intelligence and civilization. Even if we make choices based on reproductive impulses, the criteria we use to choose mates are no longer solely based on phenotypic characteristics or behavior. Why else would anyone marry Trump?

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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