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primalpoly's profile
Geoffrey Miller
Geoffrey Miller
Geoffrey Miller
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@primalpoly

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Geoffrey MillerVerified account

@primalpoly

Psychology professor; wrote The Mating Mind, Spent, Mate, & Virtue Signaling. Agnostic centrist into evolution, sex, sentience, freedom & future.

New Mexico
primalpoly.com
Joined September 2015

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    1. Geoffrey Miller‏Verified account @primalpoly 27 Mar 2019
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      In 'The Lord of the Rings', the _real_ hero was

      148 replies 7 retweets 32 likes
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    2. Bangs‏ @AndreaLynnLewis 27 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @primalpoly

      Samwise Gamgee!!! How is he not listed Geoffrey??!!pic.twitter.com/0gPPsMFGu7

      7 replies 1 retweet 96 likes
    3. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 27 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @AndreaLynnLewis @primalpoly

      Sam Gamgee is literally the standard answer. I’m not saying that as a form of hyperbole, I mean that if you ask people who analyze Lord of the Rings this is what they will tell you.

      1 reply 0 retweets 25 likes
    4. Geoffrey Miller‏Verified account @primalpoly 27 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky

      Wait but why. What's the best thing to read on this bizarre take?

      6 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 27 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @primalpoly

      Personally, going on the criterion "Whose choices are effective", I'd say that Frodo is legit the main character in FotR when he says "I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way". By RotK, Frodo's degree of Ring Corruption is too great, choice and viewpoint shifts to Sam.

      2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    6. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 27 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky @primalpoly

      The last thing Frodo does as an effective main character is tell Sam not to kill Gollum. But Gandalf is such an odd choice from a literary standpoint that I suspect you mean something other than "main character" or "protagonist" by "hero". Least substitutable personnel?

      2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
      Geoffrey Miller‏Verified account @primalpoly 27 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky

      IMHO, Gandalf is absolutely central, the sina qua non. Without him, nothing happens, there's no fellowship, no strategizing, no coordination. He's the ultimate Effective Altruist, the guy who sees the X-risk early and heroically orchestrates an effective response.

      12:33 PM - 27 Mar 2019
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      8 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
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        2. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 27 Mar 2019
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          Replying to @primalpoly

          - That's like saying Obi-Wan Kenobi is the hero of A New Hope. - If we're gonna start holding Gandalf to X-risk management standards, what the hell was he doing, leaving Frodo in the Shire for years after he started suspecting the One Ring? One Nazgul wins the war.

          2 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
        3. Eliezer Yudkowsky‏Verified account @ESYudkowsky 27 Mar 2019
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          Replying to @ESYudkowsky @primalpoly

          Or you could say that oxygen was the hero, because without it, everyone would stop breathing and there'd be no story. Stories are about variables that change over time. Gandalf is a beneficial constant of the story, like oxygen.

          4 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
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        2. Ruminative Orangutan‏ @Ruminorang 27 Mar 2019
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          Replying to @primalpoly @ESYudkowsky

          But he’s not really a “hero” in the narrative sense because he was created to do this job and doesn’t have the hapless to hero arc we all expect

          2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
        3. Geoffrey Miller‏Verified account @primalpoly 27 Mar 2019
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          Replying to @Ruminorang @ESYudkowsky

          If you're still having a 'character arc' after being alive for 2,000 years, you haven't learned much.

          5 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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        2. GhostOfSteveFoster‏ @SteveFosterLich 27 Mar 2019
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          Replying to @primalpoly @ESYudkowsky

          Well he is an angel.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Bangs‏ @AndreaLynnLewis 27 Mar 2019
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          Replying to @SteveFosterLich @primalpoly @ESYudkowsky

          Maiar is essentially a demigod. While all 5 of the Istari are Maiar, not all Maiar are Istari. Gandalf is essentially on the same level as Sauron, however the Istari were forbidden from using their full powers while in middle earth by the Valar so Sauron is more powerful

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation
        1. Harry Sudock‏ @harry_sudock 27 Mar 2019
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          Replying to @primalpoly @ESYudkowsky

          Not to mention, Gandalf deeply desired to use the ring and repeatedly managed to escape its seduction.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        1. Vergobret‏ @YourDudeAedus 27 Mar 2019
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          Replying to @primalpoly @ESYudkowsky

          Wouldn't that make Sauron or Saruman the main character aswell?

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        1. Jefferson the hick‏ @Jefferson_Hick 27 Mar 2019
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          Replying to @primalpoly @ESYudkowsky

          In that case, why not go with Tom Bombadil?

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        2. Dren 🧢 🥋 🤠 🌺 👩‍⚕️ 🍄 🎤 🍣 🎸‏ @drenwo 27 Mar 2019
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          Replying to @primalpoly @ESYudkowsky

          Saying Gandalf is the hero of LOTR is about the same as saying Yahweh is the hero of the bible.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Bangs‏ @AndreaLynnLewis 27 Mar 2019
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          Replying to @drenwo @primalpoly @ESYudkowsky

          THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING (although i thought Jesus)

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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