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primalpoly's profile
Geoffrey Miller
Geoffrey Miller
Geoffrey Miller
Verified account
@primalpoly

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Geoffrey MillerVerified account

@primalpoly

Evolutionary psych professor; wrote some books. Into the deep past & far future, esp. genes, minds, civilizations, sex, freedom, families, & Effective Altruism.

New Mexico
primalpoly.com
Joined September 2015

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    Geoffrey Miller‏Verified account @primalpoly Nov 2

    In a thriving nation-state, the state does very little, and the nation accomplishes a lot. Because the state does very little, politics is a very small part of life. Because the nation accomplishes a lot, national pride is a big part of life.

    8:32 AM - 2 Nov 2018
    • 48 Retweets
    • 240 Likes
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    19 replies 48 retweets 240 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Oliv‏ @olivutilo Nov 2
        Replying to @primalpoly

        Are there good models for national pride remaining about national achievements and not devolving into racism? Nation elevates the whole above the individual, which may be to the detriment of any nation, given it's only individuals who achieve things.

        2 replies 1 retweet 0 likes
      3. Geoffrey Miller‏Verified account @primalpoly Nov 2
        Replying to @olivutilo

        Nasa achieved the moon landing, not individuals. Groups matter.

        0 replies 1 retweet 7 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Gary Charnock‏ @garygtmm Nov 2
        Replying to @primalpoly

        “Nations” don’t accomplish anything. The nation exists only to serve, protect & enable individual accomplishment.

        1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
      3. Geoffrey Miller‏Verified account @primalpoly Nov 2
        Replying to @garygtmm

        I used to think that too.

        2 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
      4. Gary Charnock‏ @garygtmm Nov 2
        Replying to @primalpoly

        And I used to think like you. Cool, hey?

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Anna Gát‏ @TheAnnaGat Nov 2
        Replying to @primalpoly

        Reminds me of what IIRC @JonHaidt said re overpoliticisation of everyday life when state is weak. Cf. In Budapest you *know* which cafe or restaurant is Left / Right (any!) and people choose based on that... Not to mention workplaces. It's nuts and everybody hates each other.

        1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
      3. Anna Gát‏ @TheAnnaGat Nov 2
        Replying to @TheAnnaGat @primalpoly @JonHaidt

        That said would be super hard to argue with full conviction, sorry, that nation states are here to stay. We don't know that.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Geoffrey Miller‏Verified account @primalpoly Nov 2
        Replying to @TheAnnaGat @JonHaidt

        The EU is certainly doing its best to destroy the.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      5. Anna Gát‏ @TheAnnaGat Nov 2
        Replying to @primalpoly @JonHaidt

        Not sure. Nation state is a new phenomenon. There was a multilevel movement to build it up based on smaller scale local patriotism post French rev. We'll see how "natural" it is on state level in the next 100 yrs... Or how much it depends on *which* country you're in.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Facts. Federalism. Borders.  🏰 🇪🇺 🇨🇭 🇪🇺 🏰‏ @Geno_CH Nov 2
        Replying to @primalpoly

        I'd have agreed. But then you had to smuggle in `national pride`. 😟

        1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
      3. Geoffrey Miller‏Verified account @primalpoly Nov 2
        Replying to @Geno_CH

        What's wrong with national pride, pray tell.

        2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
      4. Facts. Federalism. Borders.  🏰 🇪🇺 🇨🇭 🇪🇺 🏰‏ @Geno_CH Nov 2
        Replying to @primalpoly

        I don't like the idea of social nobodies assuming the accomplishments of their nation as part of their personal identity. Some people have every reason to feel national pride, but I think that feeling is best reserved to a minority of very influential people.

        1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
      5. Kagwanja Kariuki‏ @DonOby1 Nov 2
        Replying to @Geno_CH @primalpoly

        A nation is made up by its people. Everyone has a stake in it and should feel pride in all its accomplishment and shame at it's failings. This kind of elitism leads to the people not feeling connected to their home country and therefore not caring about its actions.

        1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
      6. Facts. Federalism. Borders.  🏰 🇪🇺 🇨🇭 🇪🇺 🏰‏ @Geno_CH Nov 2
        Replying to @DonOby1 @primalpoly

        That's not even an elitist argument. I've no problem with being patriotic citizens of their home country. But nations are too large for most individuals to have a significant say in how the country looks like.

        1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
      7. Kagwanja Kariuki‏ @DonOby1 Nov 2
        Replying to @Geno_CH @primalpoly

        Patriotism says "I'm proud of the country I belong to." National pride says "This country belongs to me." While the latter thinking might go violently astray, it also lends itself to a much greater sense of responsibility over the nation, despite its size.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Kagwanja Kariuki‏ @DonOby1 Nov 2
        Replying to @DonOby1 @Geno_CH @primalpoly

        Patriotism is brightest when the nation does well but national pride never goes out, demanding action even in times of despair and shame.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Kagwanja Kariuki‏ @DonOby1 Nov 2
        Replying to @DonOby1 @Geno_CH @primalpoly

        Plus the idea that only a few individuals should be responsible for the actions of a nation is the ultimate scapegoat. Bush may have condoned torture post 9/11 but we willingly ignored it.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 7 more replies
      1. Rashad A.‏ @xekcc Nov 2
        Replying to @primalpoly

        In a thriving human being, the Ego does very little, and the Being accomplishes a lot.

        0 replies 1 retweet 1 like
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      1. Paul J Blessing‏ @PaulJBlessing1 Nov 2
        Replying to @primalpoly

        Incredibly well said. I agree wholeheartedly.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Mororlessdecai‏ @mororlessdecai Nov 2
        Replying to @primalpoly

        Lao Tzu.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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