Are there good models for national pride remaining about national achievements and not devolving into racism? Nation elevates the whole above the individual, which may be to the detriment of any nation, given it's only individuals who achieve things.
-
-
-
Nasa achieved the moon landing, not individuals. Groups matter.
End of conversation
New conversation -
-
-
“Nations” don’t accomplish anything. The nation exists only to serve, protect & enable individual accomplishment.
-
I used to think that too.
-
And I used to think like you. Cool, hey?
End of conversation
New conversation -
-
-
Reminds me of what IIRC
@JonHaidt said re overpoliticisation of everyday life when state is weak. Cf. In Budapest you *know* which cafe or restaurant is Left / Right (any!) and people choose based on that... Not to mention workplaces. It's nuts and everybody hates each other. -
That said would be super hard to argue with full conviction, sorry, that nation states are here to stay. We don't know that.
-
The EU is certainly doing its best to destroy the.
-
Not sure. Nation state is a new phenomenon. There was a multilevel movement to build it up based on smaller scale local patriotism post French rev. We'll see how "natural" it is on state level in the next 100 yrs... Or how much it depends on *which* country you're in.
End of conversation
New conversation -
-
-
I'd have agreed. But then you had to smuggle in `national pride`.

-
What's wrong with national pride, pray tell.
-
I don't like the idea of social nobodies assuming the accomplishments of their nation as part of their personal identity. Some people have every reason to feel national pride, but I think that feeling is best reserved to a minority of very influential people.
-
A nation is made up by its people. Everyone has a stake in it and should feel pride in all its accomplishment and shame at it's failings. This kind of elitism leads to the people not feeling connected to their home country and therefore not caring about its actions.
-
That's not even an elitist argument. I've no problem with being patriotic citizens of their home country. But nations are too large for most individuals to have a significant say in how the country looks like.
-
Patriotism says "I'm proud of the country I belong to." National pride says "This country belongs to me." While the latter thinking might go violently astray, it also lends itself to a much greater sense of responsibility over the nation, despite its size.
-
Patriotism is brightest when the nation does well but national pride never goes out, demanding action even in times of despair and shame.
-
Plus the idea that only a few individuals should be responsible for the actions of a nation is the ultimate scapegoat. Bush may have condoned torture post 9/11 but we willingly ignored it.
- 7 more replies
New conversation -
-
-
In a thriving human being, the Ego does very little, and the Being accomplishes a lot.
Thanks. Twitter will use this to make your timeline better. UndoUndo
-
-
-
Incredibly well said. I agree wholeheartedly.
Thanks. Twitter will use this to make your timeline better. UndoUndo
-
-
-
Lao Tzu.
Thanks. Twitter will use this to make your timeline better. UndoUndo
-
Loading seems to be taking a while.
Twitter may be over capacity or experiencing a momentary hiccup. Try again or visit Twitter Status for more information.