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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 30 Apr 2018
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    I’m starting to believe that one of the reasons why Rust is perceived to compile more slowly than C++ is that Rust *forces* use of “modern C++” idioms everywhere, while industrial C++ tends to be more C-like than C++ fans want to admit.

    2:36 PM - 30 Apr 2018 from South Beach, San Francisco
    • 14 Retweets
    • 120 Likes
    • simple complex Lie algebra Sherif Mansour Andrew Parker Xuan Huang MBL Bruce snarf arshia Rauan Mayemir Michael Eder
    13 replies 14 retweets 120 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. glandium‏ @MikeHommey 30 Apr 2018
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        Have you tried to build the rust compiler on a machine with a large number of cores? I did, with 72 cores. The result was not nice. Most of the time was spent with less than 5 cores in use.

        2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 30 Apr 2018
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        Replying to @MikeHommey

        Well, certainly we can do better with parallelism, but most of the complaints we get aren’t from 72 core systems :)

        0 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 30 Apr 2018
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        Modern C++ (and it's impact on the exiting compiler toolchains) is one of the suspected reasons for the slowdown in Chromium/Blink cycle times. There's more to it than modernity. Removing the legacy stuff is a big win.

        2 replies 3 retweets 18 likes
      3. Ville M. Vainio‏ @vivainio 30 Apr 2018
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        Replying to @slightlylate @pcwalton

        Elaborate? Modern C++ takes more time to compile?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Felipe O. Carvalho‏ @_Felipe 30 Apr 2018
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        I expected Rust to be much faster than C++ because of all the preprocessor generated code that rustc doesn't have to care about. Sophisticated code generation (LLVM) seems to be the source of most of the slowness, no matter the language.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3.  👻 🎃 Status Quo  🎃 👻‏ @KardOnIce 30 Apr 2018
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        Replying to @_Felipe @pcwalton

        Cargo check is great though. Compile times are slowish, but often I just want to check: Will it compile?

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. 2 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Jonathan Turner‏ @jntrnr 30 Apr 2018
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        Sure, but is that a plus, though? Seems like people would just say "then don't overuse the idioms"

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 30 Apr 2018
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        Replying to @jntrnr

        But C++ fans also like to claim that modern C++ is all that’s needed to solve memory safety problems. I think people commonly underestimate how much modern C++ affects compile times.

        2 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
      4. 3 more replies
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      2. fluffy  💜‏ @fluffy 30 Apr 2018
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        Replying to @pcwalton @qDot

        This is literally why I have any interest in rust at all. I love writing modern C++ but holy cow is it annoying to deal with any C++ that wasn't written with a slavish devotion to C++11 at the very minimum. (also tfw "we can't use C++11 yet, it's too new/unsupported")

        1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
      3. Jan‏ @janwilmans 30 Apr 2018
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        Replying to @fluffy @pcwalton @qDot

        Not moving to c++11 because its new? Its 2018? Most javascript frameworks dont even last 7 years :) although this attitude my be an indication of how important stability and quality are for a product, its misguided, you are missing out of new checks and bugfixes

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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