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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. Jordan Rose‏ @UINT_MIN 8 Apr 2018
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      Jordan Rose Retweeted @landley

      I don't want to attack the OP specifically (please don't go after them), and I won't argue directly with the C++ part, but C is a terrible C. Later on the OP bemoans fragmentation, but Go is a way better C than C ever was, and Rust is a way better C++.https://twitter.com/landley/status/983060536714780672 …

      Jordan Rose added,

      @landley @landley
      C is very good at what it does. C++ is terrible at what C does. You will never convince a C++ developer of this.
      Show this thread
      5 replies 1 retweet 16 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Steve Canon‏ @stephentyrone 9 Apr 2018
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      Replying to @UINT_MIN

      I really don’t think Go brings anything to the table, FWIW.

      4 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Steve Canon‏ @stephentyrone 9 Apr 2018
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      Replying to @stephentyrone @UINT_MIN

      Things I actually want from a “better C”: - support for manipulating alignment in the language. - idiomatic bitcast. - vectors in the language. - machine model with twos-comp, CHAR_BIT=8, IEEE 754, flat memory. - restrict-by-default. ...

      2 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
    4. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 9 Apr 2018
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      Replying to @stephentyrone @UINT_MIN

      I think adding a conservative, sensible compilation model (flat modules, acyclic deps, visibility control), a typesafe fat void* you can punch in and out of, fat bounded pointers / arrays, and ARC (with weak pointers) would be a good stopping point too.

      3 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
    5. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 9 Apr 2018
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      Replying to @graydon_pub @stephentyrone @UINT_MIN

      (But again, I think it's worth noting that a lot of the nice things one might want from such a Demi-Go is actually just ObjC. It reads funny, but it's not a bad language!)

      2 replies 2 retweets 6 likes
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 9 Apr 2018
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      Replying to @graydon_pub @stephentyrone @UINT_MIN

      Pervasive atomic reference counting and hash table based method dispatch is such a bummer though.

      12:58 PM - 9 Apr 2018 from South Beach, San Francisco
      4 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Erin  ✨ 💽‏ @erincandescent 9 Apr 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton @graydon_pub and

          You rarely hit the hashtable in practice though

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 9 Apr 2018
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          Replying to @erincandescent @graydon_pub and

          You usually don’t have to hash the string, but that’s not the overhead I’m talking about.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 6 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 9 Apr 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton @stephentyrone @UINT_MIN

          IMO the genius of ObjC as a design is in making those a well-marked sublanguage. I tried to do this initially with Rust too, if you'll recall: @ was "visible" to the user, as was obj-based dispatch. The user could choose where to place expensive boundaries.

          2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
        3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 9 Apr 2018
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          Replying to @graydon_pub @stephentyrone @UINT_MIN

          I think C++/CX is probably a more modern design in this vein (Obj-C runtime is basically just another COM). Unfortunate that it inherits all of C++’s complexity…though that’s undoubtedly convenient for developers.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 1 more reply
        1. New conversation
        2. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 9 Apr 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton @graydon_pub and

          objc_msgSend is pretty fast. Without the late-binding semantics baked into the language banning any sort of static devirtualization or specialization it'd probably be much less of a big deal

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        3. Jon Lockdown‏ @whyevernotso 9 Apr 2018
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          Replying to @jckarter @pcwalton and

          Throw an inline cache at it and call it a day. You wanted late binding, you got it. There’s always function pointers, or just functions.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 4 more replies
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        2. Steve Canon‏ @stephentyrone 9 Apr 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton @graydon_pub @UINT_MIN

          C calls are part of Obj-C. Use them as needed.

          2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
        3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 9 Apr 2018
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          Replying to @stephentyrone @graydon_pub @UINT_MIN

          I agree. I just think we could do better if designing from scratch.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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