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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Mar 25
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      I seriously question how committed C++ is to zero-cost abstractions when they designed and standardized an entire standard library that assumes you’re using exceptions and doesn’t really work well without them.

      13 replies 11 retweets 185 likes
      Show this thread
    2. John McCall‏ @pathofshrines Mar 26
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      Replying to @pcwalton

      This isn't really fair. The only way the STL "doesn't work well" without exceptions is that you can't trigger failures from arbitrary operations without them, but any language that allows recovery from that kind of ubiquitous failure is going to have the trade-offs of exceptions.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Mar 26
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      Replying to @pathofshrines

      I mean, what do you do if a constructor fails and you don’t have exceptions?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. John McCall‏ @pathofshrines Mar 26
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      Replying to @pcwalton

      There are places in the language that are designed around exceptions as the main failure mechanism, for sure. A lot of programmers would be happier if C++ had a tiered error-handling model and they could just turn off the highest-level tier.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. John McCall‏ @pathofshrines Mar 26
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      Replying to @pathofshrines @pcwalton

      But this is more of a design problem than a performance problem. It's *awkward* to have something in C++ that can either construct a value or fail; you have to make a static factory method or something like that.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. John McCall‏ @pathofshrines Mar 26
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      Replying to @pathofshrines @pcwalton

      But that is essentially what you're forced to do in Rust as well.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Mar 26
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      Replying to @pathofshrines

      Rust folds constructors and factory methods together and has a Result type with pattern matching and syntactic sugar, so fallible constructors are simple and idiomatic without exceptions. You aren’t working against the language the same way you are in C++.

      8:21 AM - 26 Mar 2020
      • 6 Likes
      • Joe Savona Peter Burns late night marty party Jake Shadle John Ripley 🏳️‍⚧️::🦀::😷::Diana says 🍾+🔥=🥓 A🐷AB
      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. John McCall‏ @pathofshrines Mar 26
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          Replying to @pcwalton

          I don’t know how many different ways I have to say “it’s a design awkwardness but not a performance problem”.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. John McCall‏ @pathofshrines Mar 26
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          Replying to @pathofshrines @pcwalton

          Rust basically doesn’t have a built-in constructor concept and always uses aggregate initialization for primitive initialization. It’s a fine model with some advantages.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 1 more reply
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        2. John Ripley‏ @jhripley Mar 26
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          Replying to @pcwalton @pathofshrines

          The typical static factory pattern in C++ also involves the use of an allocator, which Rust avoids.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Merlyn Morgan-Graham‏ @merlyndmg Mar 26
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          Replying to @jhripley @pcwalton @pathofshrines

          For someone who doesn't know Rust, how does Rust "avoid" it? My google so far is saying Rust doesn't actually avoid it at all, but I assume I'm not looking at it correctly.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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