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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Jan 30
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      Replying to @basit_ayantunde

      Think about how you might compile C++ templates without expanding them first. (You can’t)

      1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
    2. Basit Ayantunde (@ 🏡)‏ @basit_ayantunde Jan 30
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      Replying to @pcwalton

      How is that a problem? And how does Rust do better?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Jan 30
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      Replying to @basit_ayantunde

      Compile times. And in Rust you can compile and typecheck templates without expanding them first.

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
    4. Basit Ayantunde (@ 🏡)‏ @basit_ayantunde Jan 30
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      Replying to @pcwalton

      Yeah, I suppose. I'm not certain as to whether that's possible with C++20 concepts yet. Also, that's an unfair comparison. The type systems are different, they perform different operations at compile time. I'm new to Rust though. Rust's generics seems to be type based.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Basit Ayantunde (@ 🏡)‏ @basit_ayantunde Jan 30
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      Replying to @basit_ayantunde @pcwalton

      A static assert for example in C++ can make a type invalid as a template parameter. Which you can't test until you perform a full expansion.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Basit Ayantunde (@ 🏡)‏ @basit_ayantunde Jan 30
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      Replying to @basit_ayantunde @pcwalton

      C++ has true compile time polymorphism as each templated type can be totally different (methods, traits, content), which makes perfect sense. Cases like: Template Specialization (Class Members and Functions) Non-type Template parameters (evaluated and checked) Etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Basit Ayantunde (@ 🏡)‏ @basit_ayantunde Jan 30
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      Replying to @basit_ayantunde @pcwalton

      Rust's is more restrictive

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Basit Ayantunde (@ 🏡)‏ @basit_ayantunde Jan 30
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      Replying to @basit_ayantunde @pcwalton

      A type has to be valid to be used as a template type param. Rust's generics only restricts types based on Traits, which is easy to check for and there's no need to expand.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Basit Ayantunde (@ 🏡)‏ @basit_ayantunde Jan 30
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      Replying to @basit_ayantunde @pcwalton

      C++ has tonnes of ways of restricting types (including intrusively, unlike Rust) and a templated type can differ totally in member layout, members, methods etc. (also unlike Rust). Templated types are not necessarily correlated like in Rust.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Basit Ayantunde (@ 🏡)‏ @basit_ayantunde Jan 30
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      Replying to @basit_ayantunde @pcwalton

      I'd say C++'s is more powerful. Though flawed but taking baby steps towards improvement, especially with the long-awaited Concepts, more like Rust Traits but far more expressive and powerful.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Jan 30
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      Replying to @basit_ayantunde

      That expressive power also means that a C++ compiler has no choice other than to monomorphize everywhere.

      6:14 PM - 30 Jan 2020
      • 3 Likes
      • ohzee nick12 Basit Ayantunde (@🏡)
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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        2. Basit Ayantunde (@ 🏡)‏ @basit_ayantunde Jan 30
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          Replying to @pcwalton

          There are techniques to avoid that I suppose. E.g. Extern templates.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Doug Gregor‏ @dgregor79 Jan 30
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          Replying to @basit_ayantunde @pcwalton

          C++ must always monomorphize because the language semantics require that you do overload resolution and selection of template specializations per instantiation. Concepts don’t fix that and don’t provide any feasible path toward fixing it. Rust did the right thing here.

          2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
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