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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 7 Sep 2019
      • Report Tweet
      • Report NetzDG Violation

      Patrick Walton Retweeted every hero is a policy failure

      I’m having a hard time seeing what is wrong with println actually checking for errors, unlike C in practice.https://twitter.com/myrrlyn/status/1170035475593064448 …

      Patrick Walton added,

      every hero is a policy failure @myrrlyn
      Pretty cool how Rust people have decided we want to make CLI tools to replace older C versions because our language is safer, more expressive, just as fast … and publicly crashes if you suffix the command with "| head"
      Show this thread
      5 replies 1 retweet 34 likes
    2. Matthew Fernandez‏ @smattrr 7 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton

      In C it does, right? Just everybody ignores the return value of printf because there’s no reasonable recovery action.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 7 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @smattrr @pcwalton

      Sure there is, but the reasonable action depends on the program. Not on the stdlib deciding "oh, you should abort". Also, in C ignoring the return value of printf DOES NOT imply ignoring the error, since stdio errors are sticky. ferror(stdout) lets you see it later.

      3 replies 1 retweet 10 likes
    4. Matthew Fernandez‏ @smattrr 7 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @RichFelker @pcwalton

      Totally agree, but I’ve yet to encounter a program that had a reasonable workaround to stdout writes failing. And you’re right that panic on this error in a library is just plain broken.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 7 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @smattrr @pcwalton

      Every single C implementation of the standard posix utilities gets this right. Easiest way is just doing fflush and ferror before exiting, returning failure exit status if true. No need to check every call. gnulib automatically does it in gnu software.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Matthew Fernandez‏ @smattrr 7 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @RichFelker @pcwalton

      Is non-zero exit for a printf failure appropriate? If a program is using stdout for status updates while it does some other op, maybe it completed its task successfully.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 7 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @smattrr @pcwalton

      For the std utilities, yes. In general, it depends on the program. This is why println panicing is such a bad design. If stdout is just informative and success/failure of the writes there have nothing to do with success/failure of the command, failure should be ignored.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 7 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @RichFelker

      I think I recall someone bringing this up at the time, but people were generally uncomfortable with ignoring errors without explicit intent by the programmer, as a general principle. Maybe that was the wrong decision, but the library was designed conservatively.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 7 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton

      I think "ignoring an error that's a valid condition runtime condition, not a programming error" is a much more conservative behavior than "aborting the program". But making intent explicit is better than either.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 7 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @RichFelker

      I found some related issues. This was discussed in 2014: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/13824 … And again in 2015: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/24821 … So yeah, that was the reasoning. I don’t really have much of an opinion as I can see both sides. Like I said I wouldn’t object to deprecating println.

      9:06 PM - 7 Sep 2019
      • 6 Likes
      • David Bonet Samir Saeedi the BOFA on the SOFA Valentin Goșu 🇷🇴🤓🦖🦊 o0Ignition0o Rich Felker
      0 replies 0 retweets 6 likes

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