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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. Manish‏ @ManishEarth 5 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @andy_kelley @RichFelker and

      use Rc and Weak Presumably y'all are talking about doubly linked lists, singly linked lists are possible to do efficiently in safe code

      4 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    2. Manish‏ @ManishEarth 5 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @ManishEarth @andy_kelley and

      (it bugs me that in these discussions nobody ever clarifies which type of linked list they mean and the discussion invariably becomes "[doubly] linked lists are hard in rust" "what? [singly] linked lists are hard? rust is stupid"

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Benjamin Brittain‏ @Brittain_Ben 5 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @ManishEarth @andy_kelley and

      I find most conversations about what " rust can't do", "unsafe means rust is broken", etc... Frustrating.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 5 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @Brittain_Ben @ManishEarth and

      That’s where I find the kernel analogy helpful. Sure, userspace code can’t directly talk to I/O devices. It can’t even allocate memory on its own! But nobody would say “memory protection is broken” for that reason.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 5 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @Brittain_Ben and

      You expect userspace not to be able to do those things because they're fundamentally about control over shared/external resources. Linked lists are not. You expect(*) unprivileged code to be able to make linked lists.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Benjamin Brittain‏ @Brittain_Ben 5 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @RichFelker @pcwalton and

      Nodes in a doubly linked list are a shared resource though

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 5 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @Brittain_Ben @pcwalton and

      Except they're not if no reference to the list leaks outside of a local, single-thread context.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 5 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @RichFelker @Brittain_Ben and

      That’s why we have LinkedList<T>…

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 5 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @RichFelker and

      Anyway, I agree there should be some kind of type system extension to allow you to prove linked lists and trees correct. I doubt it’ll matter much in practice, which is why it’s been low-priority, but it would be a good thing to have. (Been saying this for years BTW)

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 5 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @RichFelker and

      It would be instructive to try to look at how, say, ATS, or Idris, does it and see how far you can get replicating whatever people do there in Rust’s type system.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 5 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @RichFelker and

      I’m sure you won’t get all the way since those are dependent type systems but it’d be interesting to see what we’re missing.

      9:07 AM - 5 Sep 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 5 Sep 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton @RichFelker and

          I have this rough vision of layers of type system complexity, where a more advanced opt-in type system can be used to prove what must be unsafe code today correct, while not leaking through to the outside normal-Rust world to keep the language accessible.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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