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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. James Widman‏ @JamesWidman 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @graydon_pub @mitsuhiko

      there is an important third category of options, which is to reproduce the desired functionality of a library. good text handling is important to users, so it is equally important that more programmers practice the implementation of good text-handling libraries (from scratch).

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @JamesWidman @graydon_pub @mitsuhiko

      With all due respect, this is implying that English speakers can write, say, Arabic text handling just as well as Arabic speakers can. Not only is this false, this sentiment has ugly cultural implications.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @JamesWidman and

      Expecting everyone to contribute to one monolithic culture has its own problems. Would building a software ecosystem for Arabic speakers be easier if it didn't need to fit in Latin-centric infrastructure?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @jckarter @pcwalton and

      I think this is key to argument: _small_ deps are the concern, and the putative "harm done" by rewriting a dep (because you don't trust it or simply don't _like_ it -- deps are always a bit of an imperfect fit) is proportional to the dep's size. Big deps matter, but are accepted.

      1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
    5. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @graydon_pub @jckarter and

      I dunno. libsodium is a small dependency. But rewriting that puts users at risk.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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    7. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @_moonstorms @sunshowers6 and

      Crypto is no less dangerous to rewrite if it’s 20 lines or 200.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @sunshowers6 and

      Let me define "small" differently: a dependency you would feel little difficulty in rewriting yourself. Especially if picked up transitively, without even noticing it. The concern here is that people are underestimating the additional auth & audit risk when making that judgement.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @graydon_pub @sunshowers6 and

      I have the opposite concern. People *feel* little difficulty rewriting text shaping. Then they ship Latin-only apps. There are costs the other way too, and programmers frequently underestimate *those* costs.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @graydon_pub and

      The biggest danger is in areas that *seem* simple, but due to programmer overconfidence, they are not. Areas where, as an industry, we repeatedly make the same mistakes. Crypto, internationalization, date/time handling, HTML escaping, Windows-friendly path handling…

      3 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @graydon_pub and

      When I was a kid I wrote a website that used regexes for HTML escaping, because I didn’t want dependencies. That’s what I want to push people away from doing. :)

      3:29 PM - 29 Jul 2019
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      • Addictive Colors Jonathan Cast серафими многоꙮчитїи P! David Ascher 🤔 assigned goth at birth Latest Tweets
      1 reply 1 retweet 7 likes
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        2. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton @sunshowers6 and

          I think that's a valid concern. But I think there's a nuance to it because there are lots of legit reasons to rewrite, revisit or subset. The position you're presenting is, after all, part of how we got so many people using OpenSSL for so long instead of revisiting & redesigning.

          1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
        3. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @graydon_pub @pcwalton and

          And like .. text libraries have hugely complex feature spaces (as you know). Wrong library FFI shape, alloc patterns, code footprint, latency, hardware assumptions, compat layers, security hardening, etc. etc. I think there are many cases where non-reuse makes sense.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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