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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. Armin »not the flu« Ronacher‏Verified account @mitsuhiko 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton

      How do you vet and security check them all? Any process one can put in place scales badly with the number of dependencies.

      2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    2. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @mitsuhiko

      How do you vet and security check all the OS libraries you depend on? I think people like to complain about Cargo, NPM, etc. because they make the complexity of software very visible, when the real issue is just that software is complex.

      7 replies 9 retweets 38 likes
    3. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @mitsuhiko

      I think this topic keeps getting derailed to software engineering stuff when it's really about authentication & authorization mechanisms, trust assumptions, porous dev communities. A false (but felt) small-trusted-community belief that "nobody is corrupting the stream" presently.

      1 reply 2 retweets 15 likes
    4. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @graydon_pub @pcwalton @mitsuhiko

      Like of course mutable vs. immutable packaging is an issue, but it's minor. People are going to auto-accept minor-version updates to a dep anyway. The issue is people worry about growth in the set of providers of those updates, inability to know "who all the authors are".

      2 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
    5. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @graydon_pub @mitsuhiko

      Do you know who all the authors are of the Windows kernel? I think people love to blame Cargo because they see a lot of “Compiling” lines every time they build and it’s scary. But they don’t realize that there are far more other, less visible, actors.

      2 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
    6. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @mitsuhiko

      No but see next qualifier: we _do_ believe (whether true or not) that there's some kind of checking / reviewing funnel on "authors of the windows kernel", both on hiring, ongoing management, and per-commit review by colleagues.

      2 replies 0 retweets 14 likes
    7. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @graydon_pub @pcwalton @mitsuhiko

      Here is the thought experiment to do: is it currently easier -- seriously, think it over -- to adopt an abandoned dep and ship an exploit as a minor rev; or is it easier to get a job as a junior programmer at microsoft and smuggle an exploit past your senior engineer reviewer?

      4 replies 1 retweet 14 likes
    8. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @graydon_pub @mitsuhiko

      You all are going to get every project rewriting the same code, over and over, for eternity, because you don’t want to delegate the work to the open source community.

      3 replies 1 retweet 1 like
    9. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @mitsuhiko

      I'm absolutely not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that the fact that almost no meaningful AAA system exists for distributed software development teams is an interesting and worthwhile problem to focus attention on.

      1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
    10. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @graydon_pub @pcwalton @mitsuhiko

      I mean, we have like N=47,362 incompatible chat protocols and easily exp(N) worth of JS frameworks and maybe _one_ serious attempt at thinking about distributed software update security (TUF) which every time I even mention, a dozen people pop up to argue the inadequacies of?

      2 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @graydon_pub @mitsuhiko

      I guess I don’t feel that strongly about whether there should be fewer actors to trust or not. I do feel strongly that projects shouldn’t rewrite code just to avoid dependencies.

      10:14 AM - 29 Jul 2019
      • 3 Likes
      • Jonathan Cast Ahmed Anan Manish
      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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        2. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton @graydon_pub @mitsuhiko

          For example, a *lot* of the reason software is so unfriendly to non-Latin language speakers is because people who speak those languages just homebrew their text handling instead of using libraries. This is manifestly unfair to most of the world.

          4 replies 1 retweet 7 likes
        3. James Widman‏ @JamesWidman 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton @graydon_pub @mitsuhiko

          there is an important third category of options, which is to reproduce the desired functionality of a library. good text handling is important to users, so it is equally important that more programmers practice the implementation of good text-handling libraries (from scratch).

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 15 more replies
        1. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton @mitsuhiko

          Not just fewer/more, but whether there's any connection to some kind of trust-chain you .. trust. Like do you exercise _no_ discrimination between the sources of your software? If someone just points to a random URL and says "install this", do you click the link? Surely not.

          0 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
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