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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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      When the left-pad debacle happened, I feared that people would conclude “dependencies are bad”. (Instead of the logical conclusion, which is “don’t allow dependencies to be deleted from package registries.”) That prediction turned out to be true. :(

      13 replies 19 retweets 91 likes
    2. Armin »not the flu« Ronacher‏Verified account @mitsuhiko 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton

      I still hate the high dependency count. It’s a nightmare. In rust as well as in javascript. I think dependency groups would help (grouped by org)

      5 replies 0 retweets 21 likes
    3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @mitsuhiko

      Disagree.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Armin »not the flu« Ronacher‏Verified account @mitsuhiko 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton

      How do you vet and security check them all? Any process one can put in place scales badly with the number of dependencies.

      2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @mitsuhiko

      How do you vet and security check all the OS libraries you depend on? I think people like to complain about Cargo, NPM, etc. because they make the complexity of software very visible, when the real issue is just that software is complex.

      9:49 AM - 29 Jul 2019
      • 9 Retweets
      • 38 Likes
      • MBL Bruce 晃 🩸🦷 puffybsd rare liquids the1truestripes let _ = self.take().unwrap(); Richard Daniel says hi! 💙 ( серафими многоꙮчитїи
      7 replies 9 retweets 38 likes
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        2. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton @mitsuhiko

          I think this topic keeps getting derailed to software engineering stuff when it's really about authentication & authorization mechanisms, trust assumptions, porous dev communities. A false (but felt) small-trusted-community belief that "nobody is corrupting the stream" presently.

          1 reply 2 retweets 15 likes
        3. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @graydon_pub @pcwalton @mitsuhiko

          Like of course mutable vs. immutable packaging is an issue, but it's minor. People are going to auto-accept minor-version updates to a dep anyway. The issue is people worry about growth in the set of providers of those updates, inability to know "who all the authors are".

          2 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
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        2. Armin »not the flu« Ronacher‏Verified account @mitsuhiko 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton

          I come from the Python world which has significantly fewer dependencies do to the restrictions of the import system. There the total number of involved actors is much smaller and easier to audit.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Armin »not the flu« Ronacher‏Verified account @mitsuhiko 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @mitsuhiko @pcwalton

          As an example every sentry dependency in Python is signed off now. Nobody is allowed to add a new one without sign-off.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton @mitsuhiko

          I am *way* more worried about the Windows kernel from a security perspective than I am about left-pad.

          1 reply 1 retweet 9 likes
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        2. Brian Smith‏ @BRIAN_____ 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton @mitsuhiko

          NPM and http://crates.io  make it easy to use something of unknown quality and to publish something of unknown quality. Once you start caring about quality then their bias towards "just get something working" works against you. Typical security vs. usability trade-off.

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Florian Gilcher ∠(・.-)―〉 →◎‏ @Argorak 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @BRIAN_____ @pcwalton @mitsuhiko

          But all sharing makes that possible, since ever. Tons of the security problems in PHP applications used to stem from copy-and-pasting from the internet. Having that wrapped as libraries under a name makes analysis and updating much easier.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 2 more replies
        1. Armin »not the flu« Ronacher‏Verified account @mitsuhiko 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton

          We only upgrade dependencies when a security issue affects our code. For that we use software like snyk.

          0 replies 1 retweet 1 like
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        1. Saleem Rashid‏ @saleemrash1d 29 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton @durumcrustulum @mitsuhiko

          there's attack surface due to volume of code (e.g. OS libraries), and attack surface due to number of SPoFs (e.g. small libraries by random authors, where any one of them could be compromised by incompetence or malice)

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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