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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 25 Jul 2019
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      Patrick Walton Retweeted Θ

      Go has GC and Rust doesn't. If you were to design an explicitly C-like language with memory safety and without GC, it would look a lot more like Rust than Go. The idea that Rust was designed by a bunch of C++ fans is absurd. Most of us were ML fans more than anything.https://twitter.com/Pessimizations/status/1154473316952023040 …

      Patrick Walton added,

      Θ @Pessimizations
      Replying to @pcwalton
      Do you disagree with it? I'm curious to know why, it seems more or less accurate to me.
      4 replies 29 retweets 253 likes
    2. Θ‏ @Pessimizations 25 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton

      From a memory management perspective, Go doesn't look like anything like C. But from the perspective of a language which in 2019 refuses to add generics, it is kind of reminiscent of C (to me at least).

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 25 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @Pessimizations

      The issue is that generics are basically a requirement for memory safety without GC as Rust does it. Otherwise you can't create safe abstractions, which would mean that every time you want a linked list you have to write unsafe code. That would undermine memory safety.

      3 replies 2 retweets 17 likes
    4. Θ‏ @Pessimizations 25 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton

      Yeah. That's kind of what strikes to me as similar in C and Go. They both sacrifice type safety, except one of them comes with memory unsafety and the other one comes with a GC. (Granted, that's a pretty big difference, but the root cause is the same, right?)

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. DanielMicay‏ @DanielMicay 25 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @Pessimizations @pcwalton

      Go is only memory safe if you force the runtime to use a single OS thread. It's not memory safe by default. It doesn't pay the price of providing safety in the presence of data races like Java. The built-in map and slice types don't maintain memory safety during data races.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    6. DanielMicay‏ @DanielMicay 25 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @DanielMicay @Pessimizations @pcwalton

      It's both garbage collected and memory unsafe. If you think this isn't a real world issue and couldn't be exploited, you would be very wrong. The approach it takes makes data races common: pass-by-reference for mutable data structures that are memory unsafe when races occur.

      2 replies 2 retweets 6 likes
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 25 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @DanielMicay @Pessimizations

      I’ve had famous security people tell me that there is no way that issue could be exploited. I was skeptical but I was willing to concede the point at the time 🤷‍♂️

      1:23 PM - 25 Jul 2019
      • 1 Retweet
      • 5 Likes
      • isiah meadows 🧢 ⏐ Τhе Αnⅽⅰеnt Вооеr ⏐ MBL Bruce Jason Mulligan eddyb, thriving in isolation,
      1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
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        2. DanielMicay‏ @DanielMicay 25 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton @Pessimizations

          It's definitely exploitable. The chance of a successful exploit is likely very low in most cases, but an exploit can be targeted at a fleet of devices and even a 1/10000 chance of success is a massive problem. In many cases, there's process respawning allowing repeated attempts.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. DanielMicay‏ @DanielMicay 25 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @DanielMicay @pcwalton @Pessimizations

          A failed attempt is going to trigger a panic, not a direct crash, so the Go program handling the panic and trying again or accepting more requests (depending on the environment) is also good enough to make it reliable for exploiting a specific host, which isn't always the goal.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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