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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 15 Jul 2019
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    Patrick Walton Retweeted ✕✕✕✕✕

    Easy to say abstractly, but harder to specify exactly which features you would take out. Practical memory safety without GC requires quite a few moving parts.https://twitter.com/peterbourgon/status/1150566036778807296 …

    Patrick Walton added,

    ✕✕✕✕✕ @peterbourgon
    it feels like there’s a smaller language hiding in Rust that’s half as powerful at the edges but 10-50x easier to read, write, and maintain
    8:46 AM - 15 Jul 2019
    • 4 Retweets
    • 46 Likes
    • Paul Smith Joe ST Tony “Abolish ICE” Arcieri 🦀 Eric Holk DanielMicay Andy 🦀⚙️ Θ asta Slava Pestov
    8 replies 4 retweets 46 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 15 Jul 2019
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        This isn't a Rust subset, but if I were doing memory-safety for a compiled lang, I'd consider making mutability and ability to hold reference/pointer to objects mutually exclusive. Ref tracking then becomes easy without heavy runtime machinery.

        3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 15 Jul 2019
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        Replying to @RichFelker

        Yeah, that’s what Cyclone did. I’m not sure it would be expressive enough, but worth a try.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. David Barsky‏ @endsofthreads 15 Jul 2019
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        I think some people would perceive Rust to be a smaller language if the commitment to zero-cost abstractions was dropped and nothing else was changed (I believe @withoutboats had some interesting thoughts on this).

        2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
      3. assigned goth at birth‏ @mycoliza 17 Jul 2019
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        Replying to @endsofthreads @thramp and

        you're not wrong, but this is a case for a _different_ language, not for dropping that commitment in Rust, IMO. there are many use-cases where Rust is close to the only acceptable option other than C...

        2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
      4. 7 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. postmodern girl‏ @strega_nil 15 Jul 2019
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        I would say, about Rust, that it has approximately the perfect number and shape of features for a systems language -- it's telling, at least for me, that even when I try to design a "better, cleaner Rust", it ends up being a transform without much cutting or additions

        2 replies 1 retweet 11 likes
      3. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 15 Jul 2019
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        Replying to @strega_nil @pcwalton

        The only things I'd consider "redesigning" (or just tweaking) are things there's no _real_ lang-design consensus on "how to do right" anyway: implicits, errors, async, effects-purity-constness, and the visible toggles(s) between static-monomorphic & runtime-polymorphic.

        2 replies 1 retweet 14 likes
      4. 1 more reply
      1. Tony “Abolish ICE” Arcieri  🦀‏ @bascule 15 Jul 2019
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        Tony “Abolish ICE” Arcieri  🦀 Retweeted Matt Hartstonge

        Just add a garbage collector, problem solved! Unless you care about any of the things I care about (like embedded)https://twitter.com/MattHartstonge/status/1150608280135147522 …

        Tony “Abolish ICE” Arcieri  🦀 added,

        Matt Hartstonge @MattHartstonge
        Replying to @peterbourgon
        (it's called @golang) 😜
        0 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Jul 2019
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        I think the smaller language is less concerned with absolute performance, but still concerned with being much faster than Go. This language doesn't need "references", just permissions (which eliminates & and * juggling). @nikomatsakis @jntrnr and I prototyped this in Lark.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Jul 2019
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        Replying to @wycats @pcwalton and

        Also, while Lark feels simpler/smaller, there are some ways in which it is "bigger", which I think would ultimately be true about any "smaller, easier rust".

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. postmodern girl‏ @strega_nil 15 Jul 2019
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        I know exactly which feature I'd take out -- raw pointers :P

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. postmodern girl‏ @strega_nil 15 Jul 2019
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        Replying to @strega_nil @pcwalton

        (specifically, I'd turn the language abstraction into a library abstraction)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. 5 more replies

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