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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. gankra's gay‏ @Gankra_ 11 Jul 2019
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      Reminder: unless your entire compiler toolchain is formally verified (it's not), you have no guarantees that the code it emits is memory-safe. Language builtin collections in memory-safe languages are no different from rust's unsafe-using stdlib collections.

      6 replies 8 retweets 57 likes
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    2. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth 11 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @Gankra_ @ManishEarth

      Don't most memory safe languages implement most of their collection libraries in the language itself, thus avoiding this problem?

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. gankra's gay‏ @Gankra_ 11 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @samth @ManishEarth

      I... don't think that's true? It would be very difficult to implement most languages' notion of an array without circularly appealing to the notion of an array. (aiui Java is relatively exceptional for having "fixed sized array" as a distinct concept to appeal to here)

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth 11 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @Gankra_ @ManishEarth

      I think most languages have a small number of simple collection types with a few operations provided by the runtime (which, as you say, might have bugs) and other data structures as well as most operations are built on that.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 11 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @samth @ManishEarth

      This is mostly true for Java-like languages, but less true for scripting languages in my experience. Perl/Python/Ruby/JS/etc. tend to implement all collections in C or C++. Lisp and Scheme are the exception, following Java here.

      1:50 PM - 11 Jul 2019
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        1. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 11 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton @samth @ManishEarth

          It’s rare enough in scripting languages that you see packages advertising themselves as “in pure Python” (etc.), since the default is to write the guts of the package in C

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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        2. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth 11 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton @ManishEarth

          Right, I think this is a place where "scripting languages" are different than non-scripting languages. JS is sort of an in-between case, with more stuff built-in than OCaml, but more stuff written in JS than Python.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Paolo G. Giarrusso‏ @Blaisorblade 12 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @pcwalton @samth @ManishEarth

          I guess the discriminant is (or should be) whether an internal implementation can be made fast enough safely (e.g., whether there's a fast enough JIT). I wonder about Lua and JS tho...

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth 12 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @Blaisorblade @pcwalton @ManishEarth

          Well, tables are the only real Lua data structure, so they have to be built-in, just as classes are in Java. For JS, I think it's a combination of maximizing performance and having no std lib that's in the language.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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