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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 16 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @slava_pestov @mdiep

      Yeah, and while there are dumb memory errors once in a while, they more often end up being more subtle errors of the sort anyone writing their own custom allocators, data layout, etc. would hit writing it in any language

      1 reply 1 retweet 7 likes
    2. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 16 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @jckarter @slava_pestov @mdiep

      Such as...? I'm with you up until this point, but things like UAF are easier to avoid in Rust even if you're using custom allocators and data layout. (See generational indices for example.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 16 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @slava_pestov @mdiep

      I'm thinking of things like "the system page size isn't what we thought it was" or "the condition for the conditionally-present tail-allocated bits was wrong and we didn't notice because we threw the load away until it ended up crossing into an unmapped page"

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 16 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @jckarter @pcwalton and

      I agree Rust would help reduce the surface area of code exposed to these issues, and its ergonomics would probably encourage better management of invariants, but many of the issues we encounter seem like they're fundamentally in unsafe land

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
    5. Matt Diephouse‏ @mdiep 16 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @jckarter @pcwalton @slava_pestov

      It would be interesting to analyze the fixes to see what issues are most common and whether a better type system would have prevented them.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 16 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @mdiep @pcwalton @slava_pestov

      Like Slava said, the vast majority of our problems are invariant violations. We don't even use C++'s type system as well as we could to head these off yet. (A clean room implementation with the benefit of hindsight would probably be more robust even if it too was written in C++)

      3 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
    7. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 16 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @jckarter @mdiep and

      OTOH there *are* some things that modern C++ purports to be able to model, namely linearity via move semantics, that it utterly fails to in practice, which Rust in particular could help with

      3 replies 0 retweets 17 likes
    8. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 16 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @jckarter @mdiep and

      To support our C++ development, we also need fairly thorough testing at many different levels, with the full battery of asan/tsan/ubsan, etc. to have confidence in our work, and it never feels like we have enough CI. A better language might reduce the amount of test infra we need

      2 replies 1 retweet 19 likes
    9. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 16 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @jckarter @mdiep @slava_pestov

      Well, I used to think that testing was an adequate substitute for language-enforced memory safety, and then the SQLite bug happened.

      5 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    10. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 16 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @mdiep @slava_pestov

      I’m not saying that testing is a replacement for language guarantees. I’m acknowledging that the cost of testing C++ is higher to get the same level of assurance you’d get from a more fundamentally safe language. I think you’d agree with that

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 16 Mar 2019
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      Replying to @jckarter @mdiep @slava_pestov

      Agreed

      6:39 PM - 16 Mar 2019
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