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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich 27 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @realbenastonnn @realbenaston @graydon_pub

      I'm using "Better is better" rhetoric. Obviously we would rather have had a Turing-incomplete language for 3rd party scripts, perhaps even more restricted -- CSS atop HTML these days is TC, IIRC. For 1st parties, sandboxed JS is good until the 1st party gets infected/goes rogue.

      0 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    2. This Tweet is unavailable.
    3. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich 27 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @realbenastonnn @realbenaston @graydon_pub

      Dorothy Denning 1999 award speech (https://faculty.nps.edu/dedennin/publications/National%20Computer%20Systems%20Security%20Award%20Speech.htm …): "Technology was moving way too fast. Customers wanted the latest systems. They wanted Windows. They wanted to hook up to the Internet. Systems with security flaws were going out the door, and customers gobbled them up."pic.twitter.com/HAtmolbKN6

      2 replies 3 retweets 17 likes
    4. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 27 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @BrendanEich @realbenaston

      Sure. I’m not saying I don’t know how it happened. Just not going to sugar coat the outcome: it’s a technical mess, 10mb pages of weird custom scrollbars and malware, and that mess puts its most prized virtues — as an infosystem — at significant risk.

      3 replies 1 retweet 12 likes
    5. David Humphrey‏ @humphd 27 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @graydon_pub @BrendanEich @realbenaston

      And yet, it's the abuse of the infosystem (sans code) that may yet be the thing that kills us all, while we're all busy arguing about the merits of scrollbars.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 27 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @humphd @BrendanEich @realbenaston

      Fair too. Probably I’m 75% angry about the fact that all this happened during a period of regulatory minimalism and starved public investment and I’m just shouting my disappointments of market failures in general at JS & web tech.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    7. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 27 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @graydon_pub @humphd and

      I do remember that much of the quality web was done with static pages and/or CGI+forms tho. I think nothing really screamed “needs JS” until gmaps, which could easily be its own desktop program. Anyone can see it’s worth installing.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 27 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @graydon_pub @humphd and

      Which means that, in practice, it would have been a big pile of Petzold-style Win32 code we’d be dependent on to this day. How would that have been an improvement?

      3 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
    9. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub 27 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @pcwalton @humphd and

      Main thing I’m objecting to (which you’re rightly pointing out happens on non-web / app store platforms too) is someone installing client software in order to provide an information service. And that viewing JS+DOM as good because they enable that more smoothly is .. backwards.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 27 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @BRIAN_____ @graydon_pub and

      I think typesetting is pretty good on the Web, given the constraints. The big missing thing is Knuth line breaking/hyphenation, but that is really hard to do given the Web’s design goals of device/format independence, etc.

      8:43 PM - 27 Jan 2019
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        2. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 28 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @BRIAN_____ @graydon_pub and

          Can you elaborate as to the problems with mixing fonts? Browsers go to a lot of trouble to make this work well.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. End of conversation

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