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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. Alexis Beingessner‏ @Gankro Oct 29

      noticing an interesting feedback loop in the web: all the major engines were built on software renderers, which leads to certain optimizations and perf characteristics, which leads to web pages which rely on that, which pushes web engines to need/want those opts, and so on

      2 replies 2 retweets 26 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Alexis Beingessner‏ @Gankro Oct 29

      e.g. drawing things is so expensive that it's worth it to do lots of book-keeping to avoid drawing things twice. webdevs then see incredibly complex but static things are 'free'. now web engines *need* aggressive caching because tons of pages have super complex static elements

      1 reply 0 retweets 17 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Alexis Beingessner‏ @Gankro Oct 29

      this feedback loop has been the biggest blow against the original "dream" of webrender, which was that *maybe* the win from gpu rendering was enough that you could just draw a page from scratch at 60fps without async scrolling, cached layers, invalidation, etc ya can't

      2 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Oct 29
      Replying to @Gankro

      The vast majority of pages do just fine with WebRender when repainting every frame. There are a bunch that don’t, but there are also a bunch that perform badly with the traditional stack.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Alexis Beingessner‏ @Gankro Oct 29
      Replying to @pcwalton

      The percentages don't really matter; if important/major pages run fine in vanilla gecko but not webrender, but a bunch of oddball pages run great in webrender, I don't think that's a win (and I don't think we could politically sell shipping that either)

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Oct 29
      Replying to @Gankro

      I actually pretty much entirely disagree with your take—the biggest problem is that we don’t control the OS compositor, so we need invalidation and so forth in order to get good energy efficiency. We’ve already proven that you can get good FPS in the repaint-everything case.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Alexis Beingessner‏ @Gankro Oct 29
      Replying to @pcwalton

      I am certain we haven't? Tons of cases where a page just slaps 5+ text-shadows on something and we fall over completely. *even* if we cache the blurs, just compositing them is too expensive. glenn is heads down working on picture caching because we have so many of these bugs!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Oct 29
      Replying to @Gankro

      I knew you were going to bring up that case :) That is easy to fix: just cache the blurs together. Much easier than picture caching. The reason why we need picture caching, in my view, is energy efficiency, not to get 60 FPS.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Alexis Beingessner‏ @Gankro Oct 29
      Replying to @pcwalton

      caching the blurs together *is* picture caching?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Oct 29
      Replying to @Gankro

      Picture caching is a lot more than just text shadows. That’s why it’s been so much work to implement.

      6:44 PM - 29 Oct 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Alexis Beingessner‏ @Gankro Oct 29
          Replying to @pcwalton

          ok sure, but it's just "the right" solution to the text-shadow issue, in the same way that MIR was "the right" solution to borrowck, even though it wasn't a technical requirement :)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Alexis Beingessner‏ @Gankro Oct 29
          Replying to @Gankro @pcwalton

          also energy efficiency is technically a requirement to hit 60fps -- my macbook pro can't even play fullscreen videos at 60fps when it starts thermal throttling :(

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Oct 29
          Replying to @Gankro

          A lot of it is that we are at the mercy of what the OS compositor (in this case, Core Animation) supports. You basically have to tile traditionally or eat one or more full window blits every frame.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Oct 29
          Replying to @pcwalton @Gankro

          I feel like if I have to eat crow, not considering the hidden tax of the OS compositor is the biggest issue. Fortunately it’s fixable. Also note that Gecko is terrible at using the OS compositor right now and WR will be an improvement there.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        6. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Oct 29
          Replying to @pcwalton @Gankro

          In fact, just using the OS compositor will probably be more of a practical win than all of the rest of WR combined.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        7. Mike Conley @mconley@mastodon.social‏ @mike_conley Oct 29
          Replying to @pcwalton @Gankro

          I can't wait!

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        8. End of conversation
        1. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Oct 29
          Replying to @pcwalton @Gankro

          WebRender did things like cache border corners from day one. (In fact it isn’t as sophisticated as it used to be, which is why moire is slow for example)

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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