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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 22 Oct 2018
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    Unpopular opinion: The Rust community uses macros too much. I basically have a “no macro definitions” policy in all crates I maintain.

    5:52 PM - 22 Oct 2018
    • 9 Retweets
    • 96 Likes
    • Functional Works Manish Nathan Lincoln Alex Nedelcu Łukasz Langa Ty Overby Komu Wairagu Declan Hopkins Rok Garbas
    14 replies 9 retweets 96 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Ted Mielczarek‏ @TedMielczarek 22 Oct 2018
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        Overused as external API or just in general? I've found them pretty useful for bits of my crates, but I don't think I've exposed any in a public API.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 22 Oct 2018
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        Replying to @TedMielczarek

        I don’t even use them internally. I find them too obfuscating :)

        1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
      4. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Jon Lockdown‏ @whyevernotso 22 Oct 2018
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        Unpopular mitigation: everywhere someone would use a macro to abstract over syntax, it should be obviated by introducing or generalising language features to let them abstract over semantics instead (e.g. higher-kinded types, higher-rank polymorphism, first-class patterns…)

        1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
      3. Brendan Zabarauskas‏ @brendanzab 22 Oct 2018
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        Replying to @whyevernotso @pcwalton

        That’s how I ended up at dependent types! Still need to patch up some stuff with elaborator reflection though :/

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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      2. Jimmy Zelinskie‏ @jimmyzelinskie 22 Oct 2018
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        If everyone is using macros, it might be evidence that the type system is not sophisticated enough. It could also be that not everybody understands what idiomatic Rust should be, so they exploit macros to try to make the language closer to what's in their head.

        1 reply 1 retweet 10 likes
      3. Barak Michener‏ @barakmich 22 Oct 2018
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        Replying to @jimmyzelinskie

        pic.twitter.com/aLBNjL3OCp

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. ʟʟoɢiq‏ @llogiq 23 Oct 2018
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        Replying to @pcwalton @ozkriff

        Popular opinion: Sometimes the type system keeps us from reusing the same code (because we cannot get the types to match). This leaves us with macros, code generation or copy & paste. The latter carries its risk, so the former are sometimes valuable.

        0 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
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      1. Tony “Abolish ICE” Arcieri  🦀‏ @bascule 22 Oct 2018
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        Every time I use a macro I feel bad and want to find a way to replace it with anything but a macro. The only exception is if it’s a macro that thunks arguments to a std macro

        0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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      1. ໓ฯlคຖ ໓p¢‏ @DPC_22 22 Oct 2018
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        Replying to @pcwalton

        Yeah I mostly stay away as well unless a macro actually has a substantial gain

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Lars Hupel‏ @larsr_h 24 Oct 2018
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        Replying to @pcwalton @clementd

        Same problem in Scala.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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