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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. Greg Parker‏ @gparker 4 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @jckarter @pcwalton

      Two problems: One, many call sites really want a two-entry cache (mutable and non-mutable class, for example). Two, it costs too much dirty memory to do this everywhere so you need some way to choose at compile time where to apply it.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 4 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @gparker @jckarter

      Yeah, you can chain them to make polymorphic ICs (all JS engines do this). Can you use PGO to determine which call sites are hot?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 4 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @pcwalton @gparker @jckarter

      It’s hard to believe that devirtualization is never worth it. objc_msgSend is pretty much always a BTB miss and that’s gotta hurt…

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 4 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @pcwalton @gparker

      That’s not really true on newer architectures. Branch prediction with history in practice predicts msgSend fairly well

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 4 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @jckarter @pcwalton @gparker

      Well enough that tricks that increase local code size or memory usage aren’t worth the systemwide costs, at least

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 4 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @jckarter @gparker

      That would imply that JS inline caches aren't worth it. I'm skeptical, given that it's completely impossible to write a competitive JS engine without them.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 4 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @pcwalton @jckarter @gparker

      I mean, it seems obvious that you will sometimes benefit from ICs, so the question is only what threshold you want to kick in the optimization at (via PGO), not whether you should do it at all.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Greg Parker‏ @gparker 5 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @pcwalton @jckarter

      Profitable PGO thresholds are one problem. Another problem is that PGO and the associated performance measurement and feedback apparatus is not yet solved, as far as I know.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 5 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @gparker @pcwalton

      Culturally I think ObjC programmers also tend to hand-optimize the hot parts of their code, either by not using messages at all or manually caching IMPs

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    10. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 5 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @jckarter @gparker

      Yeah, I was thinking this too. JS has more extreme demands on performance because devirtualization is necessary to call most anything. In Obj-C (and Swift), direct calls are more idiomatic for perf-critical code.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 5 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @pcwalton @jckarter @gparker

      I still think PGO would result in wins, but I can understand it being lower priority than in JS.

      10:13 AM - 5 Aug 2018 from Dogpatch, San Francisco
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 5 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton @gparker

          Like @gparker said, the main issue with PGO is the workflow problem of collecting and maintaining good profile info, which AFAIK still hasn’t really been solved well.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 5 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @jckarter @gparker

          Yup. We used to have problems with MSVC PGO causing *address space* exhaustion on 32-bit build machines :)

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation

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