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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 7 Jul 2018
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      Tentative conclusion after being burned in performance too many times: Diffing (like in React, but by no means is this unique to React) is a sign that there's something wrong with your framework design.

      8 replies 22 retweets 103 likes
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    2. jordwalke  ⚛️🆁‏ @jordwalke 7 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @pcwalton

      Why is the conclusion that there's something wrong with the framework, instead of something being wrong with the platform? If the DOM provided a way to efficiently supply large trees created functionally, without React having to do a diff, we'd use that API.

      3 replies 0 retweets 54 likes
      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 7 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @jordwalke

      There is no reason why creating a DOM object should be any more expensive than creating a JS object. *That* is the problem we should be solving. You shouldn't have to "supply" large trees to the DOM in the first place: they should just be DOM objects from the beginning.

      11:24 PM - 7 Jul 2018
      • 8 Likes
      • Lambda Duck Danilo Cestari Stefano Baghino Bobby King Michael Hood Sean Erle Johnson Justin Fagnani David Bonet
      3 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. jordwalke  ⚛️🆁‏ @jordwalke 8 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton

          There is a language runtime barrier which likely spends some locking overhead. That's one down side. The other downside is that the DOM's API isn't very "functional". IIRC, supplying `.src` on an iframe is not idempotent and could reload the iframe just as an example.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. jordwalke  ⚛️🆁‏ @jordwalke 8 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @jordwalke @pcwalton

          I'm also curious if, in addition to the locking overhead, there's also some additional costs of allocating many short-lived DOM objects over and over (DOM wasn't meant to be used that way). I understand browsers all have to implement their own DOM/GC interop(cycle breakers?)

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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        2. Victor Porof‏ @victorporof 8 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton @jordwalke

          Diffing doesn’t just solve the problem of interacting with the DOM. It also takes care of component tree lifetimes and allowing for transient data structures to act as if they’re long loved (apparently).

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Victor Porof‏ @victorporof 9 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @victorporof @pcwalton @jordwalke

          This is something that webcomponents don’t offer implicitly, not in such a way that the UI remains a pure function of state. Diffing allows composition of presentation to act as if it’s a relatively efficient composition of mutations. Very interested in figuring out alternatives.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 8 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton @jordwalke

          Even if creating DOM elements was cheaper than JS objects, we'd still have to diff - performance is only one reason, the other (more important) reason is to preserve existing elements and cursor position, focus, selection state, etc.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 8 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @mindplaydk @pcwalton @jordwalke

          Not that I disagree, actually. I'd love to see more compile-time UI frameworks like Svelte that solve UI updates without diffing!

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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