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pcwalton's profile
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
Patrick Walton
@pcwalton

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Patrick Walton

@pcwalton

Research engineer at Mozilla

San Francisco, CA
pcwalton.github.io
Joined November 2009

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    1. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 7 Jul 2018
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      Tentative conclusion after being burned in performance too many times: Diffing (like in React, but by no means is this unique to React) is a sign that there's something wrong with your framework design.

      8 replies 22 retweets 103 likes
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      Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 7 Jul 2018
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      Diffing is mostly just a slow way to achieve incremental update of data structures. Whenever I'm tempted to add diffing (most recently, in display lists for Servo), I think about how to make incremental updates fast instead.

      1:35 PM - 7 Jul 2018
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      • NickAcPT Lambda Duck Arash Kadkhodaei ☀️ v0.2.0 Aayush Kapoor James Lutley Carlos Galarza sudo 🦍 CEO Ceane
      9 replies 10 retweets 42 likes
        1. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 7 Jul 2018
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          To be clear, I'm not a React hater, and diffing has its use cases (like, y'know, in Git). But I do think that the consequences of diffing have to be carefully thought through before deploying it.

          5 replies 4 retweets 23 likes
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        2. jordwalke  ⚛️🆁‏ @jordwalke 7 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton

          Why not make incremental updates fast, via diffing? Diffing trees can be very fast if you use structural sharing and reference equality to quickly determine that large regions of the tree did not actually change.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton 7 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @jordwalke

          I don't understand. If you're using structural sharing and reference equality to do your diffing, then you're doing incremental update. So why not just embrace incremental update?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Shane O'Sullivan‏ @chofter 7 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton @slightlylate

          Interesting theory.Are there good examples of frameworks that have non diff based update strategies that keep clear expressiveness of React’s quasi-functional render method? If so great, let’s all move to that! If not you’re just expressing a preference for perf over simplicity

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate 7 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @chofter @pcwalton

          That's stacking the deck. The better question is "can I efficiently manage partial updates in my app?". Presuming React's costs is bonkers.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 3 more replies
        1. Marijn Haverbeke‏ @MarijnJH 8 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton

          I do think there can be a decoupling advantage to being able to provide a subsystem with a new value and have *it* figure out how to sync up, and with structure sharing & smart comparison it *can* be fast

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        2. Katelyn Gadd‏ @antumbral 7 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton

          arguably this is one of the biggest defects baked into opengl and it creeps into every part of the stack, both user space and driver space, creating bugs and performance issues

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Katelyn Gadd‏ @antumbral 7 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @antumbral @pcwalton

          Not Doing This might have been the biggest advantage D3D had over GL

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Marius Gundersen‏ @GundersenMarius 7 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton @slightlylate

          Not familiar with servo, so maybe a stupid question, but are the display lists immutable/persistent data structures?

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        1. Joe Groff‏ @jckarter 7 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @pcwalton

          It'd be interesting to see a programming environment that lets you write both, and prove that the incremental updates correctly implement the diffs between states (or derive the incremental operations automatically and let you tweak them or fill in gaps that can't be inferred)

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