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pconrad's profile
Phill Conrad
Phill Conrad
Phill Conrad
@pconrad

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Phill Conrad

@pconrad

CS lecturer at UCSB, learning guitar, practicing mindfulness in the tradition of Thich Nhat Hanh

34.288687, -119.439218
Joined January 2009

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    1. Uncle Bob Martin‏ @unclebobmartin 9 Jun 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @sarahmei @keithb_b

      Because race and gender are not attributes in demand.

      10 replies 3 retweets 87 likes
    2. Mark Overton‏ @IdarMethod 10 Jun 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @unclebobmartin @sarahmei @keithb_b

      Yes. Companies want competence. Those other attributes are unimportant. If they become important, it's called "racism" or "sexism". We don't want those.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Sarah Mei‏Verified account @sarahmei 11 Jun 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @IdarMethod @unclebobmartin @keithb_b

      That’s not how racism & sexism work. Racism & sexism require a structural power reinforcement of the preference. That structure makes itself known in statistical aggregates such as pay & promotion gaps, and glass ceilings & cliffs.

      1 reply 2 retweets 10 likes
    4. Sarah Mei‏Verified account @sarahmei 11 Jun 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @sarahmei @IdarMethod and

      So, if there were no pay or promotion gaps, and no glass ceilings or cliffs, then placing value on the backgrounds that white women & people of color bring would be sexist &/or racist. But that’s not the world we live in.

      1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
    5. Sarah Mei‏Verified account @sarahmei 11 Jun 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @sarahmei @IdarMethod and

      The power structure we have right now favors white men, as shown by pay & promotion gaps, and glass ceilings & cliffs. So placing value on the race & gender of white men is racist & sexist. But going the other way is not.

      1 reply 2 retweets 8 likes
    6. Sarah Mei‏Verified account @sarahmei 11 Jun 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @sarahmei @IdarMethod and

      To put it another way, the “best-qualified person for the job” is a judgement that needs to include the value of the background the candidate brings, and how different it is from the existing team. More different means better qualified.

      1 reply 6 retweets 12 likes
    7. Uncle Bob Martin‏ @unclebobmartin 11 Jun 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @sarahmei @IdarMethod @keithb_b

      It seems to me that what you are describing as the solution to discrimination is more discrimination. I think we should try for less discrimination.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Robert Arkwright‏ @arkwrite 11 Jun 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @unclebobmartin @sarahmei and

      Of course, you're not actually serious about "less discrimination", because then you'd be opposed to discriminating against candidates on the basis of their qualifications. On your logic, "the best person for the job" is also a form of "discrimination".

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Bartek Świerczyński‏ @bswierczynski 12 Jun 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @arkwrite

      "Discrimination" has multiple definitions. Apparently, @unclebobmartin referred to the 2nd one (where it's a bad thing) and you referred to the 1st (the more generic one, not inherently bad). See:http://www.dictionary.com/browse/discrimination …

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Uncle Bob Martin‏ @unclebobmartin 13 Jun 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @bswierczynski @arkwrite

      I think that discrimination on the basis of gender or race is always detrimental; irrespective of the intent.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Phill Conrad‏ @pconrad Apr 19
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @unclebobmartin @bswierczynski @arkwrite

      I don't doubt that you think that. And many folks see this is a fair minded way to think, because the playing field is so self-evidently level because of your pure minded intent, that this is the only rational choice. Data as @sarahmei, pointed out, indicates otherwise.

      5:27 PM - 19 Apr 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Phill Conrad‏ @pconrad Apr 19
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @pconrad @unclebobmartin and

          The playing field is far from level, has never been level, and that's even true when every single person in the process is fully committed *in their own minds* to fairness. Empirically, discrimination on the basis of race and gender *happens anyway* even when it isn't intended.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Phill Conrad‏ @pconrad Apr 19
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @pconrad @unclebobmartin and

          It's an illusion to think that any organized social process in the United States, given our social and political history, happens free of gender and racial discrimination. It isn't surprising that you might not see it if you are, like me, a white male. But it shows up in the data

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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