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paulg's profile
Paul Graham
Paul Graham
Paul Graham
Verified account
@paulg

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Paul GrahamVerified account

@paulg

paulgraham.com
Joined August 2010

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    1. sarv‏ @SarvasvKulpati 5 Nov 2020

      Starting learning scheme and that led me down a Lisp rabbit hole. This thing seems way more interesting than I’d thought 😮 There’s some stuff that I’d definitely grasp faster if I could ask questions though. Any lisp experts out there mind answering some?

      11 replies 0 retweets 56 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Paul Graham‏Verified account @paulg 5 Nov 2020
      Replying to @SarvasvKulpati

      I'll try.

      5 replies 1 retweet 122 likes
    3. sarv‏ @SarvasvKulpati 5 Nov 2020
      Replying to @paulg

      -It's been a while since most of your writing on Lisp. What do you think has changed? -at the end of http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html , you had an interesting heuristic for determining the hacker culture of a company. Does it still hold? Any similar ones today?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. sarv‏ @SarvasvKulpati 5 Nov 2020
      Replying to @SarvasvKulpati @paulg

      Maybe this is blub paradox speaking, but lisp almost seems less surprising today than it would have 20 years ago- are languages catching up? As for the second question, I wonder if there's even a simple technical heuristic anymore, w.r.t. 'enterprise' v. startup languages

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Shawn Presser‏ @theshawwn 5 Nov 2020
      Replying to @SarvasvKulpati @paulg

      Nope. No other language has macros. They can’t.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. sarv‏ @SarvasvKulpati 5 Nov 2020
      Replying to @theshawwn @paulg

      woah, so since this-http://www.paulgraham.com/diff.html  was written, 8. and 9. still are uniquely Lisp? Does that mean almost all the advantage of lisps today lies in macros? Interesting because it'll change how I think about code, but then no other language will compare, even 20 yrs later

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. sarv‏ @SarvasvKulpati 5 Nov 2020
      Replying to @SarvasvKulpati @theshawwn @paulg

      also assuming it will make a lot more sense when macros *really* click- I'm less than a few hours into lisp!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Paul Graham‏Verified account @paulg 5 Nov 2020
      Replying to @SarvasvKulpati @theshawwn

      Think of macros as code generators. Generating code lets you do things you couldn't do with a function, because you have access to the arguments unevaluated. E.g. you can't write this as a function: (defmacro setnil (v) `(setf ,v nil))

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. sarv‏ @SarvasvKulpati 5 Nov 2020
      Replying to @paulg @theshawwn

      Hmm, wrapping my head around this. Could you achieve a lot of what macros could do with higher order functions? Macros would more efficient/clean though I suppose I'll work through ANSI common lisp tomorrow and hopefully get a better grasp, thank you for answering these Qs!

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Paul Graham‏Verified account @paulg 5 Nov 2020
      Replying to @SarvasvKulpati @theshawwn

      You can't do anything that requires access to the unevaluated arguments with higher-order functions, and if you use a macro for something that doesn't require the unevaluated arguments, you're probably misusing macros, so basically no.

      8:06 AM - 5 Nov 2020
      • 4 Likes
      • Alishba Imran svetlyak40wt darpyu sarv
      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Paul Graham‏Verified account @paulg 5 Nov 2020
          Replying to @paulg @SarvasvKulpati @theshawwn

          That is, however, a deliberately narrow interpretation of your question. You can use higher order functions to do kinds of things people do with macros, e.g. iterate. But the code would not be expressed in the same way, or do quite the same things.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. sarv‏ @SarvasvKulpati 5 Nov 2020
          Replying to @paulg @theshawwn

          Skipped forward and this is *exactly* the thought I had I think I was expecting a big epiphany, when in fact their utility will probably slowly reveal itself through repeated implementationpic.twitter.com/hNCOO5adtZ

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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