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paulg's profile
Paul Graham
Paul Graham
Paul Graham
Verified account
@paulg

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Paul GrahamVerified account

@paulg

paulgraham.com
Joined August 2010

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    1. Paul Graham‏Verified account @paulg 18 Aug 2020

      Modeling a Wealth Tax: http://paulgraham.com/wtax.html 

      174 replies 194 retweets 1,091 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Ben Gras‏ @bjg 18 Aug 2020
      Replying to @paulg

      here, in NL, a country known for very harsh taxes on individuals, a tax on assets exists and currently it's 1.2% annually on net assets (with exemptions such as your own home and certain exempt, green investments) above E62k.

      1 reply 1 retweet 11 likes
      Paul Graham‏Verified account @paulg 18 Aug 2020
      Replying to @bjg

      Whoah. What do they do about illiquid startup stock?

      6:52 AM - 18 Aug 2020
      • 10 Likes
      • Michael Hay portalnyc Andrew Timson Brian Saetre Jonathan Chizick Geoff Greer Michael Herf Jason Coleman 🤔💡💻💾 Ryan Landay
      8 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
        1. Ben Gras‏ @bjg 18 Aug 2020
          Replying to @paulg

          i'm not qualified to answer, but i know it is a different tax regime. from a glance at the tax people's site, it seems there is a one-time tax of 26% when shares are sold (after no doubt subject to the yearly 1.2%). if you're interested and can translate: https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/belastingdienst/prive/vermogen_en_aanmerkelijk_belang/aanmerkelijk_belang/inkomsten_uit_aanmerkelijk_belang/inkomsten_uit_aanmerkelijk_belang …

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Jack Schorsch‏ @jack_schorsch 18 Aug 2020
          Replying to @paulg @bjg

          Most startups here are held via a two layer structure; the individual owns a holding company, and the holding company owns the shares in the startup. In practice, you don't have to pay the wealth tax. It's a big pain to issue options or shares to employees here, though.

          1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
        3. Jack Schorsch‏ @jack_schorsch 18 Aug 2020
          Replying to @jack_schorsch @paulg @bjg

          Without the shielding structure, they are subject to tax immediately. So you need all sorts of work arounds. It is *not* a startup friendly tax regime.

          0 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. Michael Herf‏ @herf 18 Aug 2020
          Replying to @paulg @bjg

          Are there good examples of assets that are hard to liquidate in small amounts? Or near 50% control threshold problems?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. PRoales‏ @proales 18 Aug 2020
          Replying to @paulg @bjg

          Turn over x% of the startup stock to the government? Does not seem like some kind of intractable problem.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. KatieTheWargamer‏ @KWargamer 18 Aug 2020
          Replying to @proales @paulroales and

          What's a *government* going to do with illiquid stock in a variety of small companies whose business and structures they don't understand? Now they've gained ALL the disincentives of the tax, without even the benefit of additional funding to pay for public services with...

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. David Hardtke‏ @stinky_teddy 18 Aug 2020
          Replying to @paulg @bjg

          I believe the problem with most wealth taxes in the past (and the reason they have been repealed) has been the difficulty of valuing non liquid assets.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Mathijs Vogelzang‏ @thijser 18 Aug 2020
          Replying to @paulg @bjg

          The tax is actually an income tax from assets. Share of the company matters, share <5% is taxed at 30% of ~4% assumed return (i.e., 1.2% "wealth tax"). Share >5% is taxed at 25% of realized income (dividend or actual cap gain), so that applies to founders.

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        1. Alex Biet‏ @alex_biet 18 Aug 2020
          Replying to @paulg @bjg

          It’s 0% if you have a holding structure

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Brent Baumbusch‏ @bbaumbus 18 Aug 2020
          Replying to @paulg @bjg

          This is a challenge for all private company ownership in Norway, which has a wealth tax of a bit less than 1%. Some family companies are forced to take money out in dividends each year to fund wealth tax. It’s terrible for building

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Tudor Stanciu‏ @TudStanciu 18 Aug 2020
          Replying to @bbaumbus @paulg @bjg

          Why not declare the wealth tax as it should be, and then have the obligation to pay the resulting amount for all the years at a liquidity moment, but no later than a specific moment in time?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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