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paulg's profile
Paul Graham
Paul Graham
Paul Graham
Verified account
@paulg

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Paul GrahamVerified account

@paulg

paulgraham.com
Joined August 2010

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    Paul Graham‏Verified account @paulg 15 Oct 2019

    As names, car and cdr are great: short, and just the right visual distance apart. The only argument against them is that they're not mnemonic. But this is a weak argument.

    1:55 AM - 15 Oct 2019
    • 8 Retweets
    • 51 Likes
    • Anthony Moumouni Dioffo `((,(Dieter 'Hovekamp))) Sashidhar Thallam Caleb Lamptey Ilya Kopyl Chingun Erdene-Ochir Steve Lloyd Daniel Aviral
    7 replies 8 retweets 51 likes
      1. Paul Graham‏Verified account @paulg 15 Oct 2019

        (a) More mnemonic names tend to be over-specific (not all cdrs are tails), and (b) after a week of using Lisp, car and cdr mean the two halves of a cons cell, and languages should be designed for people who've used them for more than a week.

        7 replies 9 retweets 54 likes
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      2. 𝚄𝚍𝚊𝚢 𝚂𝚒𝚗𝚐𝚑‏ @udayrsingh 15 Oct 2019
        Replying to @paulg

        Thoughts on hd & tl? Shorter and more mnemonic? Just doesn’t have the same history as car and cdr.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Paul Graham‏Verified account @paulg 15 Oct 2019
        Replying to @udayrsingh

        More mnemonic, yes, but too mnemonic: when you're using cons cells to represent binary trees, the right subtree is not a tl.

        2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
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      2. Mike Kelly‏ @mikekelly85 15 Oct 2019
        Replying to @paulg

        If you don’t have constraints on the length, why not just give them full names that clearly indicate what they do? If it’s important to write copy in decks and blog posts using clear and simple language, why not a codebase?

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      3. Paul Graham‏Verified account @paulg 15 Oct 2019
        Replying to @mikekelly85

        You use them so often that any name would be equally mnemonic after a week, so you might as well pick a pair that are short.

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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      1. Robbie Carlton‏ @robbie_carlton 15 Oct 2019
        Replying to @paulg

        I like the length, composability and specificity. My only issue: I find them just slightly too close visually. Why not something like car and ctr? (Other than historic reason)

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Demircan Celebi‏ @demircancelebi 15 Oct 2019
        Replying to @paulg

        What do you think about fst (for first) & rst (for rest)?

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. μολων λαβε‏ @cljurist 15 Oct 2019
        Replying to @paulg

        It seems in Clojure such names aren’t so important since we don’t use them as much as other Lisps. Because we use maps so much we’re 50% of the time using keywords to navigate our data structure. The other 49% we just use destructuring, because of its brevity and simplicity.

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      1. George Bordianu‏ @george_balance 15 Oct 2019
        Replying to @paulg

        My CompSci prof. introduced it as "car and coolder". It stuck with me for over a decade now.

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