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paulg's profile
Paul Graham
Paul Graham
Paul Graham
Verified account
@paulg

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Paul GrahamVerified account

@paulg

paulgraham.com
Joined August 2010

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    Paul Graham‏Verified account @paulg Nov 1

    Popular environmentalism (e.g. banning plastic straws) is like the way inexperienced programmers optimize code at random, without profiling first.

    7:31 AM - 1 Nov 2018
    • 428 Retweets
    • 1,865 Likes
    • George says.. Andrea Greselin Andrew Cooke Derek Footer daijirinkun Ivan-Assen Ivanov M. Hossein Sekhavat 池永あい templargin
    51 replies 428 retweets 1,865 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Jeroen Bollen‏ @jbinero Nov 1
        Replying to @paulg

        The ban on plastic straws in the EU was motivated by the fact that it's one of the most common forms of litter. 300.000 pieces of litter were studied to come to this conclusion. Furthermore, it's not a real ban. It just requires the producers to pay for the cleanup costs.

        3 replies 1 retweet 60 likes
      3. Paul Graham‏Verified account @paulg Nov 1
        Replying to @jbinero

        By mass?

        2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
      4. Jeroen Bollen‏ @jbinero Nov 2
        Replying to @paulg

        Completely irrelevant. I take it you are more educated on the subject than the researchers who determined this would be an effective measure? Your entire argument relied on a falsehood, that the ban on straws was to reduce plastic waste.

        1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
      5. Jorge Escobar‏ @JorgeEscobar Nov 2
        Replying to @jbinero @paulg

        Just to be clear, if banning straws was actually optimal solution, everyone would go after it. That's the way humans work. Other than that, looks good to say it in certain circles, no thing more.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Jeroen Bollen‏ @jbinero Nov 2
        Replying to @JorgeEscobar @paulg

        Go ahead then. How was the research conducted on behalf of the commission wrong?

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      7. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Nov 3
        Replying to @jbinero @JorgeEscobar @paulg

        Can you link to the original study? I've spent 10 mins looking, and can't find it. Thanks.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Nov 3
        Replying to @michael_nielsen @jbinero and

        Okay, so I found what I presume is the press release, which is very good as press releases go (but also a long way short of a paper): http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-18-3909_en.htm … It doesn't state how much straws contribute, unfortunately, though they're on the (long) list of top contributorspic.twitter.com/nNH7Dz8ilN

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen Nov 3
        Replying to @michael_nielsen @jbinero and

        Here's what the press release identifies as the worst contributors, together w strategies for each. Not as good as really effective profiling for program optimization, but much better than scattershot "let's fix whatever we can". It'd be nice to better understand methodologypic.twitter.com/3PRhQiIhuG

        1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
      10. 2 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Vita Benes‏ @vitabenes Nov 1
        Replying to @paulg

        It's prioritizing for a feeling of doing good, instead of doing good.

        1 reply 1 retweet 36 likes
      3. Fabian Brereton‏ @FabianLGB Nov 1
        Replying to @vitabenes @paulg

        Fake :) it was actually a well researched and well implemented policy that will do good.

        1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
      4. Vita Benes‏ @vitabenes Nov 1
        Replying to @FabianLGB @paulg

        Okay, you're probably more knowledgeable than me in this regard. Still begs the question: is banning straws the best use of policy available, or is it a cheap tactic to get some votes?

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Fabian Brereton‏ @FabianLGB Nov 1
        Replying to @vitabenes @paulg

        Single-use plastic of any kind — straws, grocery bags, cutlery, cups, etc — is a very significant yet very preventable source of pollution, which causes measurable harm. There are good cheap substitutes available and very real benefits to eliminating this waste. Good policy 👍

        1 reply 2 retweets 21 likes
      6. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Michael‏ @mmay3r Nov 2
        Replying to @paulg @elzr

        I really hope this is the case. The cynical take is that it’s like a programmer prioritizing bugs by easiness rather than importance or urgency.

        4 replies 3 retweets 40 likes
      3. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Chase Jarvis‏Verified account @chasejarvis Nov 1
        Replying to @paulg

        C’mon Paul. You gotta know that is utterly not true. Movements start with single steps - not re-writing an entire new waterfall / code base. Cc @lonelywhale

        3 replies 1 retweet 39 likes
      3. Praveen Perera‏ @PraveenPerera Nov 1
        Replying to @chasejarvis @paulg @lonelywhale

        Profiling first in no way implies doing a complete re-write. Before doing a incremental refactor or taking a single step you should figure out which actions will have the most impact and which would be a waste of time.

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      4. Jeroen Bollen‏ @jbinero Nov 1
        Replying to @PraveenPerera @chasejarvis and

        In the EU, profiling was done. That's exactly why they got to their conclusion. The single use plastics targeted make up for the vast majority of marine litter. That's what's being combated. It is not an attempt to reduce the amount of microplastics, or anything like that.

        0 replies 0 retweets 21 likes
      5. Gurudeep Singh‏ @gurudeep_sachan Nov 3
        Replying to @jbinero @PraveenPerera and

        How was the problem of marine litter chosen among many other?

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Chase Jarvis‏Verified account @chasejarvis Nov 3
        Replying to @gurudeep_sachan @jbinero and

        It was plastic straws because it’s simple and relatable. 500m per day get used and large percent end up in ocean

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      7. End of conversation

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