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patrissimo's profile
Patri Friedman
Patri Friedman
Patri Friedman
@patrissimo

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Patri Friedman

@patrissimo

On virtue, venture, family, freedom, crypto and (of course) building startup countries on the ocean.

San Jose, CA
patrifriedman.com
Joined October 2008

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    1. Jon  💀 Skeletone‏ @shotscarecrow Apr 30
      Replying to @patrissimo @robinhanson

      I mean, this isn't "the 2010s" - this is all human culture ever. Associative thinking is our natural disposition - getting round it takes care and consideration, which is where Robin has gone wrong.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Apr 30
      Replying to @shotscarecrow @robinhanson

      I disagree that, 50 yrs ago, Robin's point that laid/paid inequalities have parallels would lead to hate mobs yelling "hurr...bad man says make me screw losers...he loser...he evil...hate!!!" And I disagree that every academic should be a diplomat. Consideration is anti-truth.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    3. Jon  💀 Skeletone‏ @shotscarecrow Apr 30
      Replying to @patrissimo @robinhanson

      50 years ago we didn't have Twitter. But we certainly did have people reacting strongly to tactlessness. And no, consideration is not 'anti-truth'; it's part of being able to express oneself clearly.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Apr 30
      Replying to @shotscarecrow @robinhanson

      Our flawed human brains cannot consider "how will this be received" without contaminating our evaluation of "what is true?" Truth is monogamous, it permits no other considerations.

      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
    5. Jon  💀 Skeletone‏ @shotscarecrow Apr 30
      Replying to @patrissimo @robinhanson

      That is, frankly, an asinine approach. Truth can only be expressed in language and language is inherently a matter of "how will this be received". You cannot separate the two.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Apr 30
      Replying to @shotscarecrow @robinhanson

      That's like saying that pizza and love are the same, because we talk about them both with words. I'm sorry that you are so lost in the world of spin that you find it incomprehensible that language could be used to describe a search for objective truth.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Jon  💀 Skeletone‏ @shotscarecrow May 1
      Replying to @patrissimo @robinhanson

      I'm sorry, but that is a completely idiotic reply that doesn't grapple with what I said at all. Of course you can use language as part of a search for truth. But you can't communicate any truth without regard to how your words will be understood.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo May 1
      Replying to @shotscarecrow @robinhanson

      You can communicate with a focus on logical meaning, rather than being hamstrung by working around associational thinking. Avoiding triggers & misinterpretation takes many more words, and is sometimes impossible (ie subjects taboo to even mention)

      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
    9. Jon  💀 Skeletone‏ @shotscarecrow May 1
      Replying to @patrissimo @robinhanson

      If you haven't avoided misinterpretation then you've failed. It doesn't matter how 'logical' you think you are - you have not communicated what you meant to communicate. Complaining that it takes 'many more words' is basically complaining that communication is hard.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Jon  💀 Skeletone‏ @shotscarecrow May 1
      Replying to @shotscarecrow @patrissimo @robinhanson

      And no subject is so 'taboo' that skilled and considerate writers can't find a way to address it with the appropriate tone. All you're doing here is making excuses for bad writing by citing purity of intent.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo May 1
      Replying to @shotscarecrow @robinhanson

      "Appropriate tone" and "consideration" not only take time and special skills, but are antithetical to the search for truth. A mind focused on "what will people think" cannot focus on "what is true". If you want to understand this, read a lot more @ESYudkowsky

      1:13 PM - 1 May 2018
      • 7 Retweets
      • 51 Likes
      • Jeff Lonsdale Ernő Buzás Bit Trends Albert Ling Liam Anderson Winning Emergence FFFFFFrank Lloyd Righteous Mike NIMBYer 👻
      4 replies 7 retweets 51 likes
        1. Nathaniel Bechhofer  🌐‏ @bechhof May 1
          Replying to @patrissimo @robinhanson and

          This is a fun edgy take, but untrue. There are real opportunity costs for serious consideration of lots of arguments, and potential harms from considering ideas capable of damage. Besides, "rationalists" and "rationalist"-adjacents tend to pay edgy ideas excess attention

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        2. Jon  💀 Skeletone‏ @shotscarecrow May 1
          Replying to @patrissimo @robinhanson @ESYudkowsky

          You're now just parroting your earlier formulation as if saying it a second time makes it any less specious. You cannot communicate effectively without consideration of how it will be received, and if you aren't communicating effectively, you're not getting at any truth.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. LandonScott‏ @LandonsArt May 1
          Replying to @shotscarecrow @patrissimo and

          There are two kinds of consideration in communication being talked about here. Consideration for clarity and articulateness of ones ideas and also consideration of the feelings and emotional response of the audience. I think everyone would agree with the first but not the second.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. LandonScott‏ @LandonsArt May 1
          Replying to @LandonsArt @shotscarecrow and

          The two are also linked though, as someone who has a strong emotional response to a premise would be far less likely to engage with the ideas constructively. Consideration for emotions may be anti-truth in some circumstances and I would say demonstrably so.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Jon  💀 Skeletone‏ @shotscarecrow May 1
          Replying to @LandonsArt @patrissimo and

          I don't think we're discussing the feelings and emotional responses here - we're discussing inference by association. That falls into your first category. The argument being made by Patri is that it is somehow impossible/inefficient to account for this.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Jon  💀 Skeletone‏ @shotscarecrow May 1
          Replying to @shotscarecrow @LandonsArt and

          Specifically, we're talking about a blog post where Robin treats sex as analogous and income and expects people not to infer from this that he believes sex can be regarded as a commodity that is 'owned' by women and distributed by them to men.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Jon  💀 Skeletone‏ @shotscarecrow May 1
          Replying to @shotscarecrow @LandonsArt and

          I don't believe it's in any way beyond the ability of an experienced writer to raise whatever questions they find pertinent in their quest for 'the truth' without making such an unfortunate inference entirely inevitable.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. End of conversation
        1. Tiberius Spock‏ @CNC3P0 May 2
          Replying to @patrissimo @shotscarecrow and

          Focusing on what is true doesn't require writing. Writing, on the other hand, would assume a reader (unless never intended for publication), which assumes an intention to influence what the reader thinks.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. IncelNiceGuy1990‏ @IGuy1990 May 1
          Replying to @patrissimo @robinhanson and

          I appreciate what you've done Robin, you've inspired people to think. And I think as someone who is an Incel, you've inspired me to want to speak out about the more positive side of our movement.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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