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patrissimo's profile
Patri Friedman
Patri Friedman
Patri Friedman
@patrissimo

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Patri Friedman

@patrissimo

On virtue, venture, family, freedom, crypto and (of course) building startup countries on the ocean.

San Jose, CA
patrifriedman.com
Joined October 2008

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    1. Dan Leary‏ @leary_dan Mar 3
      Replying to @KyleSamani

      Better yet, token holders should band together and demand partial returns for projects that are over funded w. rise of ETH price. Potential way to test limits of token holders rights.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Mar 3
      Replying to @leary_dan @KyleSamani

      Token holders have no "rights", if not defined by the protocol or the purchase contract. Voting rights are not something that magically appear because you "feel" like an owner. Tokens are not stock shares. They could be, but they aren't.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Dan Leary‏ @leary_dan Mar 3
      Replying to @patrissimo @KyleSamani

      Except 0% of what you say has ever been tested in court. The answer is clearly not "no rights." What if founders allocated themselves extra tokens? Or inflated the supply?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Dan Leary‏ @leary_dan Mar 3
      Replying to @leary_dan @patrissimo @KyleSamani

      Moreover, "rights" isn't synonymous with "power." Holders of a large portion of tokens may or may not have creative ways to exert power over founders, eg, flooding the market right when founder tokens unlock

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Mar 3
      Replying to @leary_dan @KyleSamani

      Sure, tokenholders have methods of influence. But that's not the same as "rights", let alone voting rights. The SEC could declare tokens to be securities that get minority protections (disclosure, etc.), but they aren't going to declare them to be voting shares.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Dan Leary‏ @leary_dan Mar 3
      Replying to @patrissimo @KyleSamani

      So in my hypothetical above where founders allocate themselves additional shares post-ICO, your position is existing token holders have no rights? I think this is far from clear.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Mar 3
      Replying to @leary_dan @KyleSamani

      If the token is bought, and assurances are made (like future dilution), then extra dilution could be actionable. That's a right. But in the donation structure, I don't see any recourse. Under what contract or regulation do you see token holders having rights?

      6:18 PM - 3 Mar 2018
      • 1 Like
      • sam kan
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan Leary‏ @leary_dan Mar 9
          Replying to @patrissimo @KyleSamani

          The "donation" structure is just a fake name people use to avoid securities laws. That's gone. There are tons of things they could try to sue for, eg, unjust enrichment.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Dan Leary‏ @leary_dan Mar 9
          Replying to @leary_dan @patrissimo @KyleSamani

          Are you the seasteading guy?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Mar 9
          Replying to @leary_dan @KyleSamani

          I am the seasteading guy. (Also very interested in blockchain as another way to disrupt entrenched power structures with a decentralized alternative dependent on good governance tech)

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation

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