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Also, I reject the notion that communist flags and Nazi flags are comparably evil symbols. Yes, communism seems inevitably to go Very Badly, but its ideals at least *sound* noble. There is. no. noble. ideal. behind Nazism or the Klan: they're evil all the way down.
Sorry, but this is a false and content-free template fill: "I reject the notion that [evil symbol ingroup uses] and [evil symbol outgroup uses] are comparably evil. Yes, each was used by mass murderers, but [our mass murderers] had noble ideals which [their mass murders] didn't"
Patri. You are talking about Nazis. *Nazis*. Please tell me the "noble ideals" associated with the Nazi cause that you consider it acceptable for someone today to admire. I recognize that your "template" is a nasty and pernicious pattern. But you are defending *Nazis*.
Sorry, but when did I defend Nazis? I am looking back at the text of our exchange and not seeing anything that defends Nazis. I merely pointed out that "association with murderous hateful groups" is something done by both left and right (hence why both horrify me).
Everything you're saying is in defense of the position that Nazis are no worse than any other extreme-ish political faction. That a man waving a torch and shouting "Jew shall not replace us!" is somehow equivalent to a painfully naive teenager wearing a Che shirt.
That naive teenager can at least claim that she's an admirer of Guevara's utopian prose and ideals even though she deplores his actions. She may be a fool, but she's motivated by good. There is nothing redeeming, nothing admirable in Nazism: it is evil in BOTH action and motive.
There are redeeming and admirable things about nationalism & ethnonationalism. Those things don't mean "hating and killing", they mean organizing in like groups to form societies. And most alt right are ethnonationalists, not Nazi-lovers.
Yeah, I'm not going to be okay with ethnonationalism as "redeeming and admirable". I don't see any way to separate ethnonationalism from ethnic cleansing (which I've seen alt-Right people advocate, in various less and more violent forms). It's a *bad* way to form a society.
I see America as the first large, successful non-ethnostate. So ethnonationalism is the foundation of every country in history & the most proven way to build a stable society. I like US better, but it still seems insane to call ethnonat irredeemably evil w/ nothing admirable!
I recognize that ethnonationalism played an important historical role, but it did so at enormous cost. Probably the greatest social achievement of the 20th century was to begin to move beyond that, and due to that history it's so very fragile. Going back is utterly unacceptable.
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