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patrissimo's profile
Patri Friedman
Patri Friedman
Patri Friedman
@patrissimo

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Patri Friedman

@patrissimo

On virtue, venture, family, freedom, crypto and (of course) building startup countries on the ocean - because we need new mechanisms, not new leaders.

San Jose, CA
patrifriedman.com
Joined October 2008

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    Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Oct 25

    Most definitions of crypto refer to tech ("blockchain"), first use case (cryptoCURRENCY), or adversarial environment (@NTmoney). To me, the core is about economics & complex systems, sth like: "A formalized, digital, self-regulating network for economic interaction." Feedback?

    8:51 AM - 25 Oct 2018 from San Jose, CA
    • 4 Retweets
    • 30 Likes
    • Sambodhi Prem Silver V Igor Gassmann John Light Nick Tomaino Anson Tsui Blake in Portland, OR til 11/19 Brian Ramsdell Anomaly
    10 replies 4 retweets 30 likes
      1. Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Oct 25

        How would you phrase the definition from a digital economic network perspective? Do you agree that's the core property, or do you see other aspects as more central to the future deployed useful versions of crypto?

        4 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Sambodhi Prem‏ @SambodhiPrem Oct 25
        Replying to @patrissimo @NTmoney

        "formalized" by whom?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Oct 25
        Replying to @SambodhiPrem @NTmoney

        By "formalized", I'm referring to the protocol spec, white papers, change requests, code, etc. These official, network-wide specs can be contrasted with "babysitters", an economic network with no system-wide specification of the economic roles & rewards.

        2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
      4. Tweet unavailable
      5. Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Oct 25
        Replying to @bollocksworth @SambodhiPrem @NTmoney

        Blame Churchill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_paper …

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Karma Machine‏ @karma_machine Oct 27
        Replying to @patrissimo @NTmoney

        I predict that the #future of #money will not be based on #blockchain technology. It will be something like the #LightningNetwork but with channels between nodes that #trust each other = no collateral (BTC) needed. A trust network of debt/credit relations.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Oct 27
        Replying to @karma_machine @NTmoney

        A friend of mine, Simon Funk, suggested that 20 years ago. And the original payment system called Ripple (not today's XRP) had a similar idea. I think there's possibility.

        2 replies 2 retweets 3 likes
      4. Karma Machine‏ @karma_machine Oct 27
        Replying to @patrissimo @NTmoney

        The interesting thing is that the #LightningNetwork creates a very good starting point for this. All that needs to be added is the option to create trust based channels. This channls would be cheaper to operate (less blockchain tx, no liquidity locked up) = more profitable

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. renan‏ @siponza Oct 25
        Replying to @patrissimo @NTmoney

        I would say : transparent, tampering-proof network with coded incentives (economic is répartition of assets so could be different).

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Oct 26
        Replying to @siponza @NTmoney

        I don't see transparency as key. Privacy coins, mixers, coinjoin, whose goal is to obscure transactions (while maintaining invariants, ie not creating coins), seem like totally legit crypto to me.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. renan‏ @siponza Oct 27
        Replying to @patrissimo @NTmoney

        True !pic.twitter.com/CAinRgo45M

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Andrew "Not a Fed" Glidden‏ @asglidden Oct 25
        Replying to @patrissimo @mwilcox @NTmoney

        Crypto = Cryptography. In all seriousness, "it depends". Are we talking about a protocol? A data structure? A method? An asset? A community? There's probably no one perfect concept it maps onto.

        3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Patri Friedman‏ @patrissimo Oct 25
        Replying to @asglidden @mwilcox @NTmoney

        Something that covers the planned useful future versions of Bitcoin, Ethereum, EOS, Tezos, Filecoin, Augur, etc, as implemented, operating, and generating value.

        1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
      4. Andrew "Not a Fed" Glidden‏ @asglidden Oct 25
        Replying to @patrissimo @mwilcox @NTmoney

        That probably maps onto the "protocol" meaning, then. So, I'll try: "a protocol for recording, enforcing, and settling obligations, value transfers, or computation, without a central authority, through the use of cryptographic assurances together with economic incentives."

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      5. Andrew "Not a Fed" Glidden‏ @asglidden Oct 25
        Replying to @asglidden @patrissimo and

        Note that interactions need not be economic in nature, nor is the protocol the network, nor is there necessarily anything formal or self-regulating about any of it. (These are, of course, my opinions only - I can be persuaded.)

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. Mark Wilcox‏ @mwilcox Oct 25
        Replying to @asglidden @patrissimo @NTmoney

        Every interaction is economic in nature. The protocol is the network when it's an open/permissionless system

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Andrew "Not a Fed" Glidden‏ @asglidden Oct 25
        Replying to @mwilcox @patrissimo @NTmoney

        That's using the term "economic" so broadly as to make it meaningless. Of course economic considerations touch everything, but that's not helpful. Also disagree that the protocol is the network. Each component influences the entire system, but they're conceptually separable.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      8. Mark Wilcox‏ @mwilcox Oct 25
        Replying to @asglidden @patrissimo @NTmoney

        Economic in terms of the network protocol, since it all comes down to transaction processing and the dynamics around the blockchain data structure. Essentially for every transaction someone needs to pay for it so it has some potential economic value

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      9. Andrew "Not a Fed" Glidden‏ @asglidden Oct 25
        Replying to @mwilcox @patrissimo @NTmoney

        Yes, of course - but then you can imagine systems where those costs are hidden or implicit, such as permissioned ledgers. It stops being meaningful at some point.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      10. 7 more replies
      1. Karma Machine‏ @karma_machine Oct 27
        Replying to @patrissimo @NTmoney

        'A formalized, digital, selfregulating network for economic interaction' seems to be a good definition and includes ideas like the 'Karma Machine' that even though not based on #blockchain technology, will have the same positive results.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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