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patrickc's profile
Patrick Collison
Patrick Collison
Patrick Collison
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@patrickc

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Patrick CollisonVerified account

@patrickc

Fallibilist, optimist. Stripe CEO.

patrick@stripe.com
patrickcollison.com
Joined April 2007

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    1. José Luis Ricón Fernández de la Puente‏ @ArtirKel 25 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @danielgross

      Hm, I can excerpt the bits you may want when I get back home, or you can libgen it and have a look

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. José Luis Ricón Fernández de la Puente‏ @ArtirKel 25 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @ArtirKel @michael_nielsen @danielgross

      Or, what kind of explanation are you looking for? The book talks about the evolution of sleep, and it's functional role, what else is missing?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 25 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @ArtirKel @danielgross

      One that's convincing. Unlike the half dozen or more I've previously read about the evolution of sleep and its functional role.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. José Luis Ricón Fernández de la Puente‏ @ArtirKel 25 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @danielgross

      Can you link me to the previous ones and why they are not convincing?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 25 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @ArtirKel @danielgross

      I'm in a slightly odd spot here. I feel a little as though I've commented that astrology isn't all that convincing, and someone now wants a list of what I've read about astrology (a fair number of tidbits, over my life, but it was all bad, so I don't remember any titles);

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 25 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @ArtirKel @danielgross

      and they pointers to explanations of why it's not convincing (well, it's so obviously not that I'd never bother looking up such explanations). I don't mean to make an equivalence: the "explanations" of sleep I've read were mostly somewhat better than those of astrology.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 25 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @ArtirKel @danielgross

      But they weren't serious. Of course, I may be quite wrong about the current book. But all I can say is: the reviews mostly didn't make me want to spend the time reading it. I mentally bucketed it under:

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 25 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @ArtirKel @danielgross

      "may be useful for learning about _how_ & _why_ to sleep better, won't help much in explaining why sleep happens."

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 25 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @ArtirKel @danielgross

      This is a somewhat uncomfortable thread to be writing. It's began with a throwaway joke from my point of view. I don't regard my own point of view above as especially serious or well-founded. It's just how I arrived at my priors, and may be wrong.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. José Luis Ricón Fernández de la Puente‏ @ArtirKel 25 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @michael_nielsen @danielgross

      I see, then I'll have to look for these other explanations and make the case to you in a way you find convincing :-p I might email you at some point then

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      Patrick Collison‏Verified account @patrickc 25 Sep 2019
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      Replying to @ArtirKel @michael_nielsen @danielgross

      I think MN means something like "why couldn't humans have evolved to not sleep?" And even if it's not what he meant, that's what I'd love to understand. :-)

      8:37 AM - 25 Sep 2019
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      • Stef Coetzee ᴅᴀᴠɪᴅ ᴘᴇʀᴇʟʟ ✌ Albert Szabo Vivitsu Maharaja Nootrodelic Kasperi Apell Daniel Gavrilov Chet Willy
      2 replies 1 retweet 19 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Patrick Collison‏Verified account @patrickc 25 Sep 2019
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          Replying to @patrickc @ArtirKel and

          It's like Deutsch's point about good explanations being hard to vary. All of our sleep "explanations" are way too easy to perturb.

          1 reply 1 retweet 10 likes
        3. José Luis Ricón Fernández de la Puente‏ @ArtirKel 25 Sep 2019
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          Replying to @patrickc @michael_nielsen @danielgross

          The one thing with evo explanations (and the abundance of just so stories) is that they are not hard to vary, because there are various ways to achieve one end, evolution is somewhat random, there are spandrels, etc. There may be no reason why sleep instead of X, just chance and

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. michael_nielsen‏ @michael_nielsen 25 Sep 2019
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          Replying to @patrickc @ArtirKel @danielgross

          That's a substantial part of it! So many weird physiological changes (& multiple sleep states); the claimed benefits could plausibly be achieved in less costly ways, that didn't involve debilitating us for a third of the day.

          4 replies 1 retweet 8 likes
        3. Curt Fischer‏ @fischer_cr 25 Sep 2019
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          Replying to @michael_nielsen @patrickc and

          Sleep or things like it are pretty conserved in nearly all vertebrates and even most chordates. So maybe "Why do central nervous systems sleep?" is a better question/paper title.

          2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
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