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patio11's profile
Patrick McKenzie
Patrick McKenzie
Patrick McKenzie
@patio11

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Patrick McKenzie

@patio11

I work for the Internet, at @stripe, mostly on accelerating startups. Opinions here are my own.

東京都 Tokyo
kalzumeus.com
Joined February 2009

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    1. Patrick McKenzie‏ @patio11 Jan 18
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      There is increasing bifurcation in career paths and the returns to them in the engineering community, and increasingly it appears to be severe enough that not only do the sides having difficulty empathizing with each other, they affirmatively believe the other side doesn't exist.

      11 replies 24 retweets 213 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Patrick McKenzie‏ @patio11 Jan 18
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      People who describe themselves as e.g. "product-focused engineer who spent last 10 years bouncing between startups and 'companies that issue RSUs'" have told me that no engineer in the US makes $45k. This is not a true statement.

      3 replies 7 retweets 127 likes
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      Patrick McKenzie‏ @patio11 Jan 18
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      Many, many, many e.g. freelancers who work on websites for local businesses or engineers working at software companies in Europe believe that no material number of engineers make $400k. This is also not a true statement.

      10:40 PM - 18 Jan 2020
      • 14 Retweets
      • 166 Likes
      • Rudrank Riyam Joshua Clanton Jay Wilburn 🦊 Luca Iaconelli 🐣 Jay Looney Sid shubham Sent from my iPhone ÆrØx
      9 replies 14 retweets 166 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Ari Flinkman‏ @azf_works Jan 18
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          Replying to @patio11

          What’s your take if I paraphrase the latter as ”no material number of engineers make $400k in Europe, working as engineers” Because the core part of getting paid more seems to be… moving to Bay area.

          2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
        3. Patrick McKenzie‏ @patio11 Jan 18
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          Replying to @azf_works

          I think I’d need a threshold for materiality but broadly speaking I think this is one of those situations where the future is here but not evenly distributed. Are there people in e.g. Berlin with SFBA salaries? Yes. Are they uncontroversially engineers? Yes.

          4 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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        2. Ian Littman‏ @iansltx Jan 18
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          Replying to @patio11

          Engineers making $400k/yr (generally) work on problems where their knowhow creates some multiple of that $400k year-in, year-out. There is a relatively limited number of companies that have structures set up for engs to make that level of impact, vs. "all of software dev.".

          1 reply 1 retweet 9 likes
        3. Ian Littman‏ @iansltx Jan 18
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          Replying to @iansltx @patio11

          So you have to find companies that: 1. Operate at that level of scale 2. Have structures in place to ensure engs are working on valuable things 3. Don't treat engs as cogs to be swapped if they get all uppity

          1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
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        2. Zach Alberico‏ @zachalberico Jan 19
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          Replying to @patio11

          Are there a lot at 400k in base salary? I know there’s a ton at 400k total comp, but my rough impression is base salary range is 140k - 200k for L4/5 equivalent roles at most companies with Netflix as an outlier since they do all cash, am I off?

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Bill Hathaway‏ @billhathaway Jan 19
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          Replying to @zachalberico @patio11

          Far fewer at $400k base, but I think @patio11 is referring to total comp. For a lot of my friends at google l4/l5 I think mix is often ~ 50% base, 10-15% bonus, remainder in RSUs. It can vary considerably depending on years in role and performance reviews.

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Utsav Ahuja‏ @avastu Jan 18
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          Replying to @patio11

          It’s worth noting that one side is worse off for not believing the others’ here. The engineer who believes no engineers make $45k is not personally impacted. The engineer who doesn’t believe other engineers can make 10x that is seriously impairing their own income potential.

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Will Bickford‏ @wbic16 Jan 18
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          Replying to @avastu @patio11

          Also worth noting that $400K in the bay area is scaled by the stupidly high cost of living there. The same standard of living in Lincoln, Nebraska is $185K.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 2 more replies
        1. Daniel Thomason‏ @danieljthomason Jan 18
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          Replying to @patio11

          Does this apply to product managers too, in your experience, or only engineers? Asking for a friend...

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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        1. William Saar‏ @saarw Jan 18
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          Replying to @patio11

          Yes, a run of the mill long-term contractor working at a government agency or industrial giant here can get around $180k (including 1 month vacation), while employees doing the same work perhaps make 50% of that total comp. Sure, job security, but much is ignorance...

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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