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patio11's profile
Patrick McKenzie
Patrick McKenzie
Patrick McKenzie
@patio11

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Patrick McKenzie

@patio11

I work for the Internet, at @stripe, mostly on accelerating startups. Opinions here are my own.

東京都 Tokyo
kalzumeus.com
Joined February 2009

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    1. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 8 Oct 2019
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      Does anyone have a charitable explanation for why PETA ran this campaign against "anti-animal idioms" last year? It's hard for me to see why they would have thought this would be net effective for their goals, even indirectly. Any ideas? https://mashable.com/article/peta-anti-animal-language-twitter/ …pic.twitter.com/vFFIERwSxL

      130 replies 11 retweets 177 likes
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    2. Patrick McKenzie‏ @patio11 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @juliagalef

      Can I say that I mean the following as both descriptive of reality and charitable? They ran that campaign as part of a considered strategy to produce the outcome which it got. *You saw it.*

      5 replies 0 retweets 33 likes
    3. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @patio11

      I figured they probably knew the publicity would be negative. But is there a plausible story for why that's useful for the goal of helping animals?

      3 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    4. Patrick McKenzie‏ @patio11 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @juliagalef

      If you grant people that work there the argument "Perpetuating PETA into the future helps animals. In fact, it is probably the most important thing we could do which helps animals." then "Crush our Q4 goals for brand awareness" very plausibly helps animals.

      2 replies 0 retweets 22 likes
    5. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @patio11

      So you're suggesting that they have good reason to expect that, in the long run (increased $ from greater brand recognition) > (reduced effectiveness from annoying ppl / looking foolish) ?

      3 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    6. Patrick McKenzie‏ @patio11 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @juliagalef

      Yep. They're not optimizing for likelihood of capturing a donation from Julia. They're optimizing for likelihood of capturing a donation from semi-informed person whose personal cause is animal welfare thinking "Hmm where does one donate given one's cause is animal welfare."

      1 reply 0 retweets 41 likes
    7. Patrick McKenzie‏ @patio11 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @patio11 @juliagalef

      And they can *bury us both* in evidence that this strategy is effective. PETA is the scissor factory.

      3 replies 1 retweet 14 likes
    8. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @patio11

      But presumably they don't have evidence about how much this stuff hurts "animal welfare" as a cause in general. They could only have evidence about e.g. how it affects their donations. So they're just assuming that the good they can do via increased $ > the harm to the cause ?

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
      Patrick McKenzie‏ @patio11 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @juliagalef

      If one is being maximally charitable to PETA, they think they have *overwhelming* evidence. "We turned $10 million into X police reports saving $NUMBER abused animals. Each is a life we value as approximately equal to yours. Tell me more about my 'credibility' and its impact."

      1:12 PM - 8 Oct 2019
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      3 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
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        2. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 8 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @patio11

          But even if they think "$10 million from negative publicity --> N abused animals are saved" ... they must know that "negative publicity --> some people/businesses become unwilling to be associated with animal welfare --> M abused animals are *not* saved" Why think that N > M ?

          2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
        3. Patrick McKenzie‏ @patio11 8 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @juliagalef

          In the status quo they operate in, most people who'd get turned off by negative publicity *eat meat.* PETA thinks they are lost causes. The entire game is convincing the sensible sliver of humanity to donate to the organization that will, someday, end meat eating.

          2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
        4. 2 more replies
        1. Patrick McKenzie‏ @patio11 8 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @patio11 @juliagalef

          There's a rationalist take on this which is approx "OK granting that value system if your campaign delays the transition to not eating meat by, hmm, a day then..." and if they shared preferences they'd say "We think we accelerate by 1+ days. We are only ones here with data."

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Tracey Steele‏ @traceysteele 8 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @patio11 @juliagalef

          Please pardon me for jumping into what is a really interesting exchange. I think Patrick is correct, but there's more than simply brand awareness. Controversy energizes your base. PETA does/says ridiculous things to attract comments like "these people are idiots" 1/

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Tracey Steele‏ @traceysteele 8 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @traceysteele @patio11 @juliagalef

          because they know people who support animal rights will fire back "you're an asshole who kills animals for sport" and having that kind of "relevance" in social media will encourage some people to volunteer and/or donate to PETA. It's a tactic used by politicians (i.e., Trump).

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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