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oe1cxw's profile
Claire Xen 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈🧙🏻‍♀️ BLM 🏴🚩
Claire Xen 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈🧙🏻‍♀️ BLM 🏴🚩
Claire Xen  🏳️‍⚧️ 🏳️‍🌈 🧙🏻‍♀️ BLM  🏴 🚩
@oe1cxw

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Claire Xen  🏳️‍⚧️ 🏳️‍🌈 🧙🏻‍♀️ BLM  🏴 🚩

@oe1cxw

Neurodiverse trans geek girl. Yosys, RISC-V, SAT/SMT.

She/her/hers
clairexen.net
Joined September 2014

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    1. whitequark‏ @whitequark 20 Dec 2018
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      this is the sort of code that FPGA vendors provide in their technotes as the code you are expected to write. yes, with the mixed blocking and non-blocking assignment... (Lattice TN1250)pic.twitter.com/HtOjjiw3Qp

      2 replies 1 retweet 37 likes
    2. Dr. Thorn‏ @iamtommythorn 21 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @whitequark

      I don’t see a problem (no sarcasm).

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Claire Xen  🏳️‍⚧️ 🏳️‍🌈 🧙🏻‍♀️ BLM  🏴 🚩‏ @oe1cxw 21 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @iamtommythorn @whitequark

      It's a race condition in simulation. You need to use a non-blocking assignment (<=) or other "always @(posedge clk)" blocks will see either the old or the new dout value in that same cycle, depending on the implementation defined order the simulator runs those blocks in.

      3 replies 2 retweets 8 likes
    4. Claire Xen  🏳️‍⚧️ 🏳️‍🌈 🧙🏻‍♀️ BLM  🏴 🚩‏ @oe1cxw 21 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @oe1cxw @iamtommythorn @whitequark

      Except that it's worse than "implementation defined" things in C because an implementation may choose to run different blocks in different threads, yielding a situation where multiple runs of the same simulator may return different results.

      2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
    5. Zip CPU‏ @zipcpu 23 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @oe1cxw @iamtommythorn @whitequark

      Personal experience: these types of bugs (blocking assignments to a register referenced in multiple always blocks) are very difficult to chase down. Avoid them at all cost if possible.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    6. Eric LaForest‏ @elaforest 23 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @zipcpu @oe1cxw and

      What worries me is that I've been doing this for a decade, and I've never had a race condition, and I can't see why. I suspect I'm doing something else, some restriction in coding style, that avoided it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Eric LaForest‏ @elaforest 23 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @elaforest @zipcpu and

      Which leads me to wonder if some simulators, e.g. Modelsim, do some kind of basic dependency analysis and schedule blocks "in order" to (mostly) avoid this problem.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Claire Xen  🏳️‍⚧️ 🏳️‍🌈 🧙🏻‍♀️ BLM  🏴 🚩‏ @oe1cxw 23 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @elaforest @zipcpu and

      Yeah, that would be a very EDA-industry thing to do. I wouldn't be too surprised if this is the case. Btw, if you are using modelsim, -hazards can help you find this kind of race conditions.

      6:28 AM - 23 Dec 2018
      • 3 Likes
      • whitequark Tristan Groléat Eric LaForest
      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Eric LaForest‏ @elaforest 23 Dec 2018
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          Replying to @oe1cxw @zipcpu and

          Nice, but I've since switched to Verilator after @zipcpu wrote his intro to it, and Xsim for client projects using X's IP.

          1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
        3. Al‏ @folknology 23 Dec 2018
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          Replying to @elaforest @oe1cxw and

          @zipcpu mentions (verilator) sim effects under 'Trace bias' https://zipcpu.com/tutorial/lsn-04-pipeline.pdf …

          0 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Eric LaForest‏ @elaforest 4 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @oe1cxw @zipcpu and

          It just occured to me that a possible reason I have never seen a race condition is that I lay out my always() blocks in the order the data is processed in, so if the simulator simply schedules them in the order they are read, there would be no races.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Zip CPU‏ @zipcpu 4 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @elaforest @oe1cxw and

          I've been scratching my head on this all day. While I know I might be able to try this ides this generally, I know I can't do it consistently. That would then lead to the rare hair-raising bug search for something completely unexpected. Sorry, not for me

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Igmar Palsenberg‏ @Palsenberg 5 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @oe1cxw @elaforest and

          Is it an issue when synthesizing ? Or is that vendor / tool determined ?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Dr. Thorn‏ @iamtommythorn 5 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @Palsenberg @oe1cxw and

          At the core is an ambiguity that means different simulators and synthesizers are free to interpret differently. Needless to say, that can lead to difficult to debug bugs

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Show replies

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