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oacgnol's profile
toon long
toon long
toon long
@oacgnol

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toon long

@oacgnol

scala gardener @stripe, sweat(shirt/pants) connoisseur. he/him

austin, formerly brooklyn
Joined September 2010

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    1. P. Oscar Boykin‏ @posco Jan 28
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      1. @bazelbuild is IMO the best choice for a build system if you a very large codebase you want to build entirely from source, or even if you don't have a large codebase but you have many different languages (some Go, some Java, some Python, some C, some C++, some ....)

      1 reply 0 retweets 11 likes
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    2. P. Oscar Boykin‏ @posco Jan 28
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      2. There are many downsides to using Bazel, and those can be summarized around a few problems: Google owns development and external contributors are 2nd (or 3rd) class citizens. A high churn rate: you deal with constant deprecations/breakages/redesigns. Ergonomics are at best ok.

      1 reply 0 retweets 14 likes
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    3. P. Oscar Boykin‏ @posco Jan 28
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      3. So why write a new build system? My main motivation is to explore key design elements from Bazel in a simpler setting with the aim to make them better known and more widely applied. The build problem (more generally processing DAGs of tasks) is very general yet ignored by many

      1 reply 0 retweets 11 likes
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    4. P. Oscar Boykin‏ @posco Jan 28
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      4. So, I'm doing a few things: first, use a typed language to describe builds. We have a Build[A] type that is sort of like a Future but for builds. If we are forced to write types on all our builds a lot of bazel's magic (and difficulties) evaporate.

      2 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
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    5. P. Oscar Boykin‏ @posco Jan 28
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      5. Bazel tries to elide when you are dealing with a Record, a Build[Record], a string that is a path, or a string that is a label for a build output. This confusion makes it challenging to write complex plugins for bazel which must be done in an untyped python subset language.

      4 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
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    6. P. Oscar Boykin‏ @posco Jan 28
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      6. In Bazel all tools are native binaries, but we also want total reproducibility, so setting up toolchains (e.g. c compilers) is a big pain and a source of non-reproducibility. My system makes all tools jars, and builds jars, so the problem is FAR simpler and easily explained.

      2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
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    7. P. Oscar Boykin‏ @posco Jan 28
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      7. Bazel is more similar to Make than to Maven: it basically understands nothing of external packages. Modern build tools generally conflate package management with build. Due to bazel's static graph API, writing hermetic package management in bazel is a serious challenge.

      1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
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    8. P. Oscar Boykin‏ @posco Jan 28
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      8. By assuming you are on the JVM, you can make fetching maven/ivy artifacts first class. It makes the model a bit less general, but in practice MUCH more easily usable.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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    9. P. Oscar Boykin‏ @posco Jan 28
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      9. Bazel should add more ease to making hermetic repo rules, the only rules that can do network access. Unfortunately, the obvious approach requires dynamic graphs, which the bazel developers are loathe to expose to users. Without that, repo-rules have to fetch magic binary tools

      3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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    10. P. Oscar Boykin‏ @posco Jan 28
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      10. My real interest is a data-artifact build system: today's artifacts depend on yesterday's artifacts plus the events that just came in. A principled system like Bazel (your build as a pure function) plus a time-axis could represent a real advance for data workflow systems.

      7 replies 0 retweets 26 likes
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      toon long‏ @oacgnol Jan 28
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      Replying to @posco

      sounds really close to my white whale of a not-airflow data workflow system!

      12:14 PM - 28 Jan 2020
      • 4 Likes
      • Emma Tang Andrew Scott Tpol Chico P. Oscar Boykin
      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Andrew Scott‏ @andygscott Jan 28
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          Replying to @oacgnol @posco

          I was about to send this your way and then I saw your toot

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Adam Rosien‏ @arosien Jan 28
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          Replying to @andygscott @oacgnol @posco

          long toot

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. End of conversation

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