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o_guest's profile
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
@o_guest

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Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ

@o_guest

• goth gremlin • computational cognitive/neuroscience modeling • geek & techish Cypriot • plant aficionada • came up with #bropenscience • http://neuroplausible.com  •

Τότεναμ, Λονδίνο & Cyprus
olivia.science
Joined October 2015

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    Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 16 Dec 2017
    • Report Tweet

    Recently, I've witnessed some senior academics mock PhDs & postdocs for choosing industry. Apart from the utterly baseless points raised (hours are flexible in many data science jobs, workloads are often similar, etc.) — it's completely out of order in general. I see you.

    12:24 PM - 16 Dec 2017
    • 32 Retweets
    • 234 Likes
    • Julie Applefield UK Politics PLOW Gilbert Cockton Rose Andrew Karla Fejfarová John Finn Becca Stephanie Noble Colleen Sprigg
    19 replies 32 retweets 234 likes
      1. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet

        Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ Retweeted Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ

        https://twitter.com/o_guest/status/942464496211316737 …

        Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ added,

        Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ @o_guest
        I'm incredibly glad to see academics come out to say (mostly) supportive things — to agree that this is not conducive to a healthy environment. I wasn't sure of what I expected, but certainly not this! It's important to support postdocs' careers both inside and outside academia. https://twitter.com/o_guest/status/942128207595212800 …
        0 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Dave Wright‏ @nothing_counter 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @o_guest

        I think lots of academics in big institutions suffer from a form of Stockholm syndrome. Many at UCL give similar view re: other universities as well as industry. At best they are extremely self interested in the way they express these opinions to junior colleagues.

        2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
      3. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @nothing_counter

        It's funny you assumed the main person doing the OP mocking is at UCL. They weren't and never have been AFAIK.

        3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @o_guest @nothing_counter

        I actually have the impression, from my lab and related people, that UCL academics are extremely into industry collaborations. But obviously things are different from department to department and lab to lab.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Dave Wright‏ @nothing_counter 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @o_guest

        I think collaborations are viewed differently to 'going over to the other side'. Conversations with admin/finance types at UCL suggest most people are not as open as your contacts are.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      6. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @nothing_counter

        Well, my lab has a part-time PhD student who works full-time at a data science company. So you might indeed be right and I'm in a lucky bubble, hence why the OP with so shocking to see.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Dave Wright‏ @nothing_counter 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @o_guest

        The weird insecurities of academics very rarely surprise me these days. Although with this there may also be fEC/funding related politics in play.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      8. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @nothing_counter

        What surprised me was not the views per se, but the fact they thought it was appropriate to express them in the context of a another person leaving for industry. The person who was leaving was not their employee/student.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      9. Dave Wright‏ @nothing_counter 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @o_guest

        To me, that behaviour is an (unpleasant) side effect of the style of academic discourse where people state strong opinions looking to get a 'debate' started. I feel I am quite guilty of that sometimes although I do increasingly try to be more sensitive.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      10. 8 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. श्रवण वसिष्ठ / Shravan Vasishth‏ @shravanvasishth 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @o_guest

        i feel that moving to industry is perfectly fine, as long as you don't think it's going to get rid of all the problems one faces in academia and life will be hunky dory---you often just acquire new kinds of problems.

        4 replies 3 retweets 18 likes
      3. श्रवण वसिष्ठ / Shravan Vasishth‏ @shravanvasishth 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @shravanvasishth @o_guest

        but life could get better in industry than in academia, of course. i guess it depends on the type of job one gets.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @shravanvasishth

        Yeah, from working in the same lab with part-time PhD students who work full-time at data sci companies I noticed that they have a similar routine to PhD students with less depression since they are fired if they don't go to work and going seems somewhat preventative IMHO.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      5. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @o_guest @shravanvasishth

        But yes of course there are other jobs with other more dramatically different responsibilities. At the end of the day postdocs also would get fired if they didn't show up to work every day too, so it's not black and white.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Josh Nicholson‏ @joshmnicholson 16 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @o_guest

        We're working on creating a resource that counters this stigma. I think first-person stories would help! https://www.authorea.com/inst/18729 

        1 reply 1 retweet 11 likes
      3. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 16 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @joshmnicholson

        I'm staying in academia so can't help, but RT, which I shall!

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Josh Nicholson‏ @joshmnicholson 16 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @o_guest

        We have a few committed so far. I think once we get a handful more it might start to be a really nice resource for advice and "different" paths ahead.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Josh Nicholson‏ @joshmnicholson 16 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @joshmnicholson @o_guest

        And thanks!

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 16 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @joshmnicholson

        You're welcome.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Josh Nicholson‏ @joshmnicholson 16 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @o_guest

        Related:https://www.statnews.com/2015/12/10/phd-academic-culture-must-change/ …

        0 replies 4 retweets 4 likes
      8. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. John Thompson‏ @Single_Molecule 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @o_guest @bioinformer

        This is not a recent phenomenon. When I went to industry, 30 yrs ago, lot of people viewed it as failure. I have never regretted the decision. There are good & bad industrial jobs just like academia. More applied research means results are more rapidly applicable. Both necessary.

        1 reply 1 retweet 8 likes
      3. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest 17 Dec 2017
        • Report Tweet
        Replying to @Single_Molecule @bioinformer

        Of course — especially since it's not practical to have every PhD graduate stay in academia in the current climate, if ever.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation

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