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o_guest's profile
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ
@o_guest

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Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ

@o_guest

• goth gremlin • computational cognitive/neuroscience modeling • geek & techish Cypriot • plant aficionada • came up with #bropenscience • http://neuroplausible.com  •

Τότεναμ, Λονδίνο & Cyprus
olivia.science
Joined October 2015

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    1. Matt Krause‏ @prokraustinator Jun 15
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      Replying to @o_guest @shravanvasishth

      Both are hard, but experiments are riskier: you can spend years breeding and training animals and end up with nothing at all, not even an uninteresting or null result. It would take spectacularly bad planning for that to happen while modeling.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest Jun 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @prokraustinator @shravanvasishth

      I don't understand what you all mean when you say this, so I have at least 4 modeling projects over the past decade which are unpublished, some unpublishable. And I know many modelers in similar situations.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Matt Krause‏ @prokraustinator Jun 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @o_guest @shravanvasishth

      I spent a year and a half training a monkey to perform a fairly complicated behavioral task. It died (of unrelated natural causes) before I had collected more than a handful of cells.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Matt Krause‏ @prokraustinator Jun 15
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      Replying to @prokraustinator @o_guest @shravanvasishth

      That’s much different, IMHO, from working on something for a while, deciding its uninteresting, and moving on.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest Jun 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @prokraustinator @shravanvasishth

      I didn't say it's uninteresting. I said I can't publish it. Anyway, I don't understand why we have to talk like data collection is harder, riskier, etc. I don't think it's a comparison that makes sense.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Matt Krause‏ @prokraustinator Jun 15
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      Replying to @o_guest @shravanvasishth

      It’s not a total order or contest. I’m trying to explain why experimentalists are often a bit...protective of data—it feels like there’s a lot more room for things to go randomly and catastrophically wrong at any moment, wiping out all our effort so far.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Matt Krause‏ @prokraustinator Jun 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @prokraustinator @o_guest @shravanvasishth

      It would take years and $$$ to recover from a few TB bacteria in the animal house. OTOH, barring a worldwide collapse, I can reboot all of our analysis and modeling stuff with a ‘git clone’ and a coffee.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest Jun 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @prokraustinator @shravanvasishth

      Recovering code isn't the same as recovering computational experiments nor the same as publishing them. All I asked is why people think modelers are harming you, it's not zero sum AFAIK, when it's modelers who are at a disadvantage in terms of authorship and recognition?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest Jun 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @o_guest @prokraustinator @shravanvasishth

      Why do non-modelling people feel the need for example to tell me that modelling is easy? When they are probably from the same group who say modelling is hard? Why? I don't say anything is easy about data collection.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Matt Krause‏ @prokraustinator Jun 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @o_guest @shravanvasishth

      I have literally never said that. I spend about 1/2 my time on analysis and modeling stuff and realize exactly how hard it is. That part of my life feels limited by my time and abilities, rather than the happenstance of experiments. That randomness has career implications too...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Olivia Guest | Ολίβια Γκεστ‏ @o_guest Jun 15
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @prokraustinator @shravanvasishth

      You didn't yourself, no. I thought this thread is about the group-level dynamics and you wanted to chat to me about them since I and the OP asked?

      6:38 AM - 15 Jun 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Matt Krause‏ @prokraustinator Jun 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @o_guest @shravanvasishth

          Ok, so then....My point is these risks make experimentalists territorial. Offering to collaborate, even when not ‘legally’ necessary, defuses that feeling and, more importantly, often yields a better paper (or at least prevents people from chasing artifacts).

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. John Henderson‏ @JhendersonIMB Jun 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @prokraustinator @o_guest @shravanvasishth

          I always think the kind thing to do is to ask the originator if they would like to collaborate. Like if I give my neighbor apricots from my tree, they're free to make and eat an apricot torte, but it's always nice if they share a slice with me.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. श्रवण वसिष्ठ / Shravan Vasishth‏ @shravanvasishth Jun 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @JhendersonIMB @prokraustinator @o_guest

          Someone pointed out on this thread that what that collaboration would do is destroy the independence of the researcher who may be demonstrating problems in the original claims. That is a killer argument against having the orig. author as collaborator.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. John Henderson‏ @JhendersonIMB Jun 15
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @shravanvasishth @prokraustinator @o_guest

          I guess it depends on your view of science, and of human nature.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        6. End of conversation

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